i got a 1948 chevy wrecker couple weeks ago and i already titled in my name which is good and now im getting ready to modify it which is better......but theres one problem. i just found out my ''VIN'' is the engine serial number rather than the body serial number and that about to get yanked and given the boot........so what do i do!?
This past summer I bought a '38 Buick and discovered the same thing. Quite common on older cars. I contacted the State DMV (Illinois) and explained I wanted to change the ID number from the engine number to the vehicle chassis number. What was required was a form, filled out by Law Enforcement Officer, that certified the numbers on my car. In my case, I did this prior to registering the car in my name, so it did not necessitate a reissue of a title. However had I already titled it, a corrected title would have been issued. Your State may have a slightly different process, but I suggest you contact the DMV and inquire. Ray
You probably will receive a blue vin sticker, a state assigned vin after a dot inspection. Save all your receipts.
Very common on older vehicles, and a real pain in the butt, whereas most States and all auction companies are clamping-down. Many States require a visual inspection when registering the vehicle, but in Massachusetts you just need the Title. So, with a recent 1950 Chevy 3100 build, I bought a new GM-authorized ID Plate from Jim Carter, had it stamped with the Title number, added patina to look like original, and switched-it out. Pre-1951 all GM VIN Plates were screwed-on with clutch-head screws, not riveted, so it's an easy swap. KEEP ORIGINAL PLATE WITH COPIES OF ALL DOCUMENTATION JUST IN CASE. (My Truck sold at auction a year ago with no red-flags). P.S. I've got extra clutch-head screws if you need them!
the only sound advice I have seen thus far is by Ray. Why put stuff on here that only provides confusion and can actually cause legal issues in the future? DO NOT remove the engine. Contact the DMV. They will send you an inspection form. You will need to get a trooper to put eyeballs on the truck. Make certain all your paperwork is in order and make sure all numbers are clearly visible. In other words, make it easy. After the form is filled out, just follow the instructions. You may be required to get a pencil rubbing of the body tag, but most of the time a photo is sufficient. Send in the information and wait. You should have too much difficulty other than being patient.
After reading other replies, and rereading my own earlier post, I think I need to clarify. My Buick had the original engine, the engine number matched the title, but the car also had the factory serial number plate riveted to the chassis, coincidentally directly adjacent to the engine number location. On Buick's, those are not the same number. I called the State DMV, explained the issue and what I wanted to do, and received instructions how to proceed. The Law Enforcement Officer simply looked at both the engine number stamping and the chassis serial number plate and verified both on the document. I did also photograph the numbers although I don't recall that being required. I sent that document and the photos along with the new title application with chassis serial number as the vehicle VIN and got a title accordingly. There was no need for an "assigned VIN". I have no certainty what your State may say about the process, but I do suggest you call and ask. If it can't be done, or is not to your liking....at least you'll know...and can decide what you want to do. But, if it is as simple as my experience here, why not proceed ? Ray
making a tag is good way to get your ass in trouble. You haven't stolen the car and the number is legitimate, go to your motor vehicle investigator, be polite and explain what you have and what you are doing they will reissue the title in the body numbers or issue a new vin number. If you try to fake something you will someday be trying to sell a car with a fake title, that kills the value. It's just hoops jump threw them it will be worth it in the end.
EVERY TIME I TRIED TO GET AROUND THE DMV IT CAME BACK TO BITE ME ON THE TAIL. GET THEM INVOLVED WITH YOUR PROJECT AND DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. "I FOUGHT THE LAW AND THE LAW WON"
Been there, done that. Ray's and Bob's advice is dead on. To the DMV, you won't be the 1st or 1,000th person to have this problem. Every DMV employee I've talked to is well aware of 'the way things used to be'. As long as the car has the original VIN or serial number plate, nothing new is attached - the state simply issues a new title. I've seen people try to beat the system - sometimes it works, most times it doesn't. The point is, though, why even try when there's an easy, established, legal way to fix the problem? Just my two cents... Dave B.
ok i was hoping all i had to do was get a form from the dmv and have the popo come look at it........but the hope now is that the truck still has the original engine in it..... and i wont be able to look at that till tomorrow or saturday.
You keep the engine and when you make the change file the proper paperwork for a reassignment of number. After the inspection ( probably by the state constabulary?) to verify the "new" number they should issue you a new title reflecting the number that was assigned and void your old title. Many states registered cars by the engine number clear into the '60s. Eventually I think by some federal mandate the vin number assigned at the factory was used. More often then not the vin matched the engine number, hence "numbers matching" cars.
I'd call my local title agency and see what they had to say about it. It won't be the first time they've dealt with this. Every 55/56/57 Chevy that ever had an engine changed has exactly the same situation. In Texas (I know, but probably similar), Chevys were titled by engine numbers and Fords by frame numbers from at least the early 30s to sometime around the 60s.
When I was a kid in the '50s, I regularly hung around a local garage that from time to time installed exchange rebuilt engines. They would grind off the number on the incoming exchange engine and stamp in the number of the outgoing engine, to prevent a non-matching situation. Ray
That was common I think more common than is recognized. I pulled an engine out of a '70 Corvette in '85 that had a star and a second number on the block. No one knew why so I called GM ( I used to know a guy that knew a guy) they told me that the first mill probably took a dump while under warranty and that the star and second number was so that it would remain a numbers match car, that changing an engine number was frowned upon by the Fed. The funny thing is how many law enforcement people do not know that on most older cars the engine number is the serial/vin number. The wife and I were looking for a quick together car the summer before I joined the HAMB. We went to look at a '47 Chevy 2 door, and there was a Missouri State cop that was looking at and wanted the same car. but he would not buy it because he could not find the vin. So nice guy that I am I whipped out my trusty pocket knife and scrapped the grease and crud off the engine number and sure enough it matched the title. he passed on it because he said he may want to change the engine someday. I passed as well because the car had sat in the mud for long enough to rot the chassis almost in two in several places.
I own a '32 Ford 5w that is titled with the engine # (an early 60's Chevy engine). I haven't pulled the body off yet to see if I can find a frame #, and it has been this way since the early 70's. I remember my Dad changed the engine in his 1949 Chevy PU in the early sixties, and had to do paperwork for the state. My '53 Chevy uses the body and frame #,'s (both the same) and not the engine # like I was lead to believe it should have been. I was told GM changed in '55
CAVMAN I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS WILL HELP BUT ON MY 32 THE VIN# IS ON THE DRIVERS SIDE JUST AHEAD OF WHERE THE FIREWALL BOLTS ON TOP OF FRAME RAIL. IF INDEED LIFE IS MOSTLY VIEWED FROM ONE WINDOW WOULD SOME ONE PLEASE CLEAN THE GLASS!!
went and checked.....it doesnt have the original engine in it anymore..... in fact its got the smaller 216 from a 1950 pickup truck or car
Going through vin # hell right now. I have owned a 49 Buick for 19 years, correctly titled in my name in Missouri using the engine number. Moved to Indiana and replacing the original engine with a 455 from 1973. Went to the local DMV to change the title over from Missouri to Indiana and change the vin # from the engine serial to the original number on both the frame and the body so title will have original alternate number. I was instructed by the Indiana DMV agent to have a police officer review the numbers and fill out a form certifying that the body/frame numbers were actual. Did that last week and returned yesterday to have title transfer processed. Different DMV agent. She says they can't do it. I say, this is what I was told to do by previous agent. She gets her supervisor involved. He says information I was given last week is faulty. I either need to get a letter from Missouri DMV indicating they titled the car wrongly in the first place 19 years ago or I have to get a court order here in Indiana to force them to title car with the body/frame vin number. Or, I can title the car here in Indiana with the same engine number as on the original Missouri title than apply to have a new vin number assigned, a number they will make up, not the body/frame number that is original to the car. Then, I would have to stamp a new vin plate and add it to the car. This is essentially the same end result as if I have the title switched from Mo to IN using the old engine number and then punch a new vin tag with that number and attach it to the car. AND AS INDICATED ABOVE THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO AVOID. In effect they are forcing me to circumvent the system. Crazy.
Fat47 I have discovered in several states that the people in the local office have no clue so they just make it up as they go. Contact the DMV at the state capitol and have them send you the information. They have to have the rules down. Then when you go to see the hirelings they have something to work with. You may even find some if not all of what you need on the SEMA site. They keep a PDF file with the state licensing and titling laws by state.
Fat47......I had an almost identical situation when bringing a '38 Buick into Illinois from Oregon. I am an Illinois resident (unfortunately) and had a title from Oregon that was recently issued in my name. It and the prior Oregon title used the engine number as the vehicle ID. I wanted to change the vehicle ID to the original chassis number which was riveted to the frame. Local DMV said I couldn't do that. I asked, politely, "why not"......they gave me a name and number to call at the Secretary of States, DMV. I called, talked to this fellow...he understood what I wanted. He did say this wasn't their preferred method, but to get a Verification of Number Form signed off by a local law enforcement officer and send the title, application for new tile and the signed vericfication to him and he would take care of it. I tell you all this in support of the idea of going to the State's DMV headquarters for assistance. But, by all means, be polite! Ray
The Jalopy Journal
