History Miller Race Car Chassie Pictures/Info?

Automobile magazine this spring had story of old timer who aquired one of the earliest known Miller engines, and built car to run it in. Article had lots of photos guy was restorer and fanaticle about details wonderful photos of details I'll look and try to find month for you.

 

Not to drag this great thread O/T, but has anyone looked at using a Quad4 Olds engine as a Miller "look-alike"? I've seen the twin-cam versions undressed and they are very similar in visual architecture to a Miller. They even use a split intake port which would work for the Miller "waterfall" intakes used on the inline 8s...



http://www.flickr.com/photos/etmccaus/5877913622/sizes/l/in/photostream/





Awesome stuff in this thread, guys!

 

The Automobile issue is June 2011. It was a very good article about a great guy, Bill Castle. Bill passed away this past December. The amazing part about Bill is he started on that build when he 84 or 85 and finished when he was 90. I was fortunate to get a ride in the car this past summer. There are a few threads that mention Bill on the HAMB if you do a search. His craftsmanship was top shelf and really quite inspiring.-Jim

 

Just love these Miller designs. The guy was an artist. I have a first edition of Mark L Dees "Miller Dynasty" for sale (new and never opened). Not sure if it is alright to post that here or not.

Great stuff good luck with your project.

 

If i ever hit the lottery this will be what i'd be doing!

 

We never hit the lottery. Our "treasure" was Dad's fantastic memory and skills of how to build these cars, and his artistry at being able to shape any kind of metal. When we were working on a restoration, or making a frame or body -and only having a PHOTO to work from, Dad would yell out all kinds of measurements (from his unhesitating memory of vintage race car construction back in the day..)to me, to within a 1/16 of an inch. Most of our body and frame templates for all the parts and pieces were just cut up cardboard (in three different dimensions) Dad could weld up all the parts I cut, into perfectly flush units of frames & bodies. When the radiator shells or exhausts, were chromed, and the aluminum or steel bodies painted, there would not be any waves in the reflections. When some parts were too big to put into a small roller, I would bend them over a piece of Telephone pole! we would lay betrween two old, beat up work tables. *Note-those brownish shadows on the shell and grille, above, are not rust. It is actually a heavy coating of normal Axle grease, as our low-tech rust-preventative, until the plating.
If somebody wanted a particular old racer reproduced. that no longer existed, or was destroyed or scrapped in years past, I would start by going down behind the local appliance store, and get an old refrigerator carton, and start hand-drawing out the frames, and bodies, shells etc, and sub-frames on them, in full-size, and cutting sections out, for templates. Then we cut a LOT of the steel pieces in our 40 year old band saw, vee-ed them out at the join-edges, welded them and ground and filed and sanded them flat and flush, so you would never find the joints. No Lottery-size funds were involved, other than some of the "better' more "exotic" racing engines. We ONLY used period correct hardware and fittings and guages etc with no modernizations.
I always tell the story of learning to form metal from my "Master-Craftseman Dad, with decades of experience that I could Never hope to "catch-up" with. I was forming steel gas tank ends, using thre different type hammers, for a pre war sprinter and proudly asked him "Is This good enough." In front of some important visitors, I learned an indelible leson, when he threw it across the table at me, cutting my head, and strongly lectured that "There is No such Thing as "Good enough". "It is either right or it isn't!" That never left my mind when working on any vintage race car part, again..After he passed I did a couple more, but it was NO Fun without him approving of the work. Went back to vintage aircraft, engines & parts. Dealt with the Same kind of interesting people..Don't wait fo The Lottery. Cardboard, and sheet steel and aluminum are not expensive...

 

Jim,

Sorry to hear that Bill Castle passed away- he was quite a gentleman! Bill contacted me after I posted a couple of pics of the Baby Chevrolet here on the HAMB. The next thing I know, there must've been 10 emails with pic after pic of the build in my inbox! It was a great pleasure being in cotact with him.

He'll be missed.

 

Since this Miller thread has revived itself I'll ask:

Does ANYONE have any pix of the Miller-Burden roadster besides this one? Any other pix at all? And...does anyone know it's whereabouts? Whatever happened to the Miller-Burden Roadster?

Curiously Yours-Mark

 

Mac, I was sorry to hear it as well. Bill told me when I visited him this summer that before he died he wanted to figure out which engine they put in the Baby Chevrolet first. We corresponded and threw around ideas and scaled pictures as to where the exhaust exited the hood sides etc, but never came to any conclusions, sadly. He was on oxygen at the time and could not attend the Miller Meet. He insisted I have his son Terry give me a ride in the Baby Chev and I thoroughly enjoyed it. He was not only one of the nicest guys but incredibly talented. His workmanship always blew me away.

The great thing though is he finished this labor of love of putting the Baby Chev together so we could all share in what it looked like in the day. I am sure it gave him great pride and kept him young during his final years. He was a cool guy for sure-Jim


Here is a pic of Bill before he started on the build with the engine in his basement.

 

Sad to read of Bill Castle passing, but we all owe him a big thank you for building a running car. The discussion is an old one, but I would rather see, and hear an original race engine in a spot on replica than see it sitting in a family room. Bill was up front on the project and the finished product sure looked nice to me. Bob

 

I am also very sad to hear of Bill Castles passing .Bill Contacted me about 7 years ago , he had heard I had original patterns for the Miller 183. Bill and I talked on a regular basis about possibly using my patterns for casting another block and he kept me updated on the progress of his car. I am just a home-grown Hot-Rodder and his level of knowledge and Skill was obviously way out of my league , but he loved to tell me about his project! I hope I have half his enthusiasm if I make it to my 80's.Here are some photos of his finished car......







Here are a couple shots of the Miller/Offy patterns I rescued about 10 years ago

 

I do not want to hi-jack this thread anymore than I have but Bob I agree with you that Bill was upfront. It was really refreshing especially since other than two Millers Borgeson brought back from France, just about every other Miller needs an explanation as to its provenance. In reality, a decent portion of these other "Millers" was created out of whole cloth so to speak. Bill was open and most of the other "restorers" did much of the same hush hush and people now claim Bill's car was a recreation. Enough said,as I agree with Bob but do not want this thread to go to far south.

Ron you have some very nice stuff on those shelves. Amazing when you think about all of the good racing machinery that ran as a result of those patterns.

Truth be told Bill's patterns were just as nice. He made beautiful wood patterns for his differential, trans case and steering box. I asked him some questions on his steering box and so he gave me a blueprint he made of his steering box and it was artful as well. He even cast the pieces for his brakes. Every time I visited I was amazed. As I said before Harry Miller would have been proud of Bill's work as well (and I told Bill that)-Jim

 

Sorry , accidently deleted photos from photobucket

Bill Castles car





Miller Offy patterns

 

Indeed they were. Bob Swarmz uses that method for his repro-rails.

 

Swarmz does all our frames too. We have the Original 122 Rear drive Miller Frame Buck (Solid 2" steel) and the Original Front drive. They are designed to be flipped and used for making both left and right frame rails.

For the Emmanuel/Burden cars were are currently recreating, Solid Steel Frame bucks were made from original Miller drawings of the Bucks.

 

I'll check.. Might take me a couple days.

 

Funny you should ask...

First off, there may have been Two of them. The Burden car: Black V-16 Supercharged seen above.. and the "Emmanuel Miller" an exact copy of the Burden car but was believed to be ordered with a Supercharged v-8. It is still speculation of how far along, or finished the Emmanuel car ever got. It was ordered, but no one is certain what came of it. As for the Burden car, it is believed to have been dismantled, or destroyed. The engine was bought, and reconfigured to run Indy. It is in Speedy Bills museum. The Carbs and a few other SMALL components survived and are in collections.
At the Moment we (Zakira's) are re-creating the car(s). 95% of the drawings and wooden bucks for what Harry Miller (or at the time RELLIMAH) called simply "Pleasure Cars" has survived. These are EXTRODINARY cars... 130" wheelbase, Roots SuperCharged V-16, ALL WHEEL DRIVE, 2 seater monsters!!
Here are pics of the Burden car (Black) and what many think is the Emmanuel car (Bare aluminum with only TWO hood blisters) and also pics of the current re-creation(s) going together.

 

Pics of the project(s) at this time..

 

Josh, thanks for looking! Those are some great shots of the Roadster- Mark, there should be a good drawing of it in the Miller Dynasty book (couldn't find it in the Borgeson book)? I might have a copy of it somewhere and will scan it for you if I do.

 

Mac the Yankee.. Yes, we have those drawings. I'm PMing you now.

J Shaw

 

Here's a print of the Miller as a cabin speedster, very much like the Auburn speedster that burned and was recreated a few years back.

Josh, PM sent back- MANY thanks, sir!

 

This thread is a great resource on Millers and I thought I would add a link to the video about 40% scale 3D printed front drive Miller 91, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1zV8JMwrvs

regards, John

 

save

 

I had asked about the Miller Burden pix before I owned The Miller Dynasty book-wanted it for years but the used-book prices had approached stupid money. Thank you Gordon White for selling The Miller Dynasty as such a fair price-love it now that I have it.

One day Josh, I hope Zakira's runs across a customer who wants a Miller-Burden type of chassis...but with much more elegant 1930's coachwork designed by yours truly with input from Zakira's brilliant staff. One day...

 

Testing, testing, 1,2,3....I have not yet posted on the new format...kinda confusing, where's the threads I follow? Don't see them but I'm sure they're here somewhere.
Okay now the attached pix I shot at the 2012 Millers and Milwaukee of Bill Castle's Hammerart Durant-Miller with a Miller 183 behind it it with a cast aluminum body....Happy 2015!!

 

here's some of the Sampson Special , the only twin engine Miller ever built .

 

^^^^^^^^^^ Is that Sampson Special the same car that was running around with a Cragar head on a Model B Ford engine back in the 1970's? Great looking restoration. The original engine went into a later chassis that Bob Swanson drove at INDY, that version is in the INDY 500 collection now. Bob