I've been working on getting my 53 chevy 2100 4-dr. (with the old 235 and powerglide) back on the road and thought I'd scratch your brains about an issue it's had for as long as I've had it. 2 out of 3 times when I try to start the car, the starter gear dosn't mesh with the flywheel and "zings". I have to pop the hood and manualy turn the engine over aout a 1/4 turn and then it'll either zing again, or turn over fine. I rebuilt the engine and tranny not long after I bought the car, and when I did I notice that the bolt behind the starter that secures the trany to the adaptor housing was broken out (not on the threaded side of the adaptor, but on the hole side of the tranny). We brazed this up and replaced the missing bolt, but I'm wondering if reestablishing this bolts pressure could have pulled the starter out of alignment? At one point we pulled the flywheel out and saw that the teeth were severly worn down (they were fine when the tranny was rebuilt). We cut off the ring gear and welded a new one in place but it's still skipping off the gears (and yes we welded it straignt). I also upgraded the starter to a 12v one when the motor was rebuilt but I'm pretty sure that the casing is the same as the old 6v one. I've lived with this issue the whole time I've driven the car, but I really don't want to weld another ring gear in and It dosn't impress the girls when the car makes funny noises and you have to pop the hood to get it going. So what am I missing here? Do these starters need to be adjusted or shimmed into place at times? I don't think my flywheel's bent as it dosn't give off any odd vibrations when running.
12 volt starters/flywheels have a different number of teeth than 6 volt versions. You may have a mismatch of parts if you have the original flywheel and a later 12 volt starter.
The diameter of the gear on the 12 volt starter is smaller than on the 6 volt starter. If the flywheel is still the orginal 139 tooth 6 volt, then you need to put a 6 volt starter back on, or change the flywheel to a '55-62 with 168 teeth. You can run a 6 volt starter on 12 volts.
We swapped the starter out because it would get hot if it didn't crank right away. Will the 55-62 flywheel bolt up to the crank and torque converter the same?
Define "it would get hot if it didn't CRANK right away" Do you mean turn over the engine..... or..... the engine turned over but wouldn't start? If it would turn over, but wouldn't start easily, you need to fix that problem first. A Chevy six, even running 6 volts, should start within a couple of turns if it is in good tune.
It would turn over fine, the starting would be the issue. When it runs fine it starts no problem. But if something would go wrong, I didn't want to kill my starter while trying to fix whatever the issue was. I'm going to pull the starter out and take a look at it. I'm pretty sure I still have the 6v one floating around. Thanks for the input! Seems like these things always come down to something simple.
Sounds like it needs a tune up. Your problem isn't really the starter, although the starter might be ready for an overhaul. Can't say without seeing it. All 1941-62 flywheels and 50-62 flexplates will interchange as it relates to the engine.
Ok, so I did some rumaging through my parts and found this guy which jogged my memory: Sorry, but I have to amend my story. When we swapped the flywheel we DID go back to the original starter (I'm still trying to get a clear picture of it in the car). I want to say we found a 12v version with the exact same housing and mounted the old solonoid to it. But whatever the voltage is, it's physically the same as the original, but still isn't messing with the flywheel. You can see the metal shavings in the spur gear pocket of the 'new' type starter. Kinda nasty.
Sounds to me like you need to pull the starter and compare, if what is on there is 12 volt, than it probably has the smaller gear on the starter drive.
start over and verify what you really have. 6v flywheel has 139 teeth. 12v flywheel has 168 teeth. once you verify what the flywheel is, then use the proper starter.
I pulled the starter: I measured the gears between the two starters and the old 12v starter had about a 1" diameter gear and the current one (I'm guessing is 6v. These thing need better tags!) had a 1 1/8" gear. Both had the same number of teeth. So it's obvious why it tore up the ring gear and stopped working. Currently however, the ring gear has some shiners in a few spots but is still in good shape. Still not meshing though. It bolts up square and tight. Could the solinoid noy be pushing the gear in far enough? I'm going to wire it up and "start" it outside the car to see how far it goes.
I wired up and 'started' the starter outside the car and the pinion gear if definantly fully enguaging. It actually hits kinda hard! So..... any ideas on why it isn't meshing?
Still no ideas? So far it looks like I have the right starter and the right ring gear, but it's still not meshing when cranked all the time. There's got to be a solution to this thing right?
Update: bought a new (old) starter. It with my old solenoid made a difference. Instead of starting 1 out 3 tries, it's starting 19 out of 20. A little wear on the ring gear makes it "Ring out" every now and then, but without opening the hood and turning the engine over it starts on the next try. I can live with that (at least until restoration time). My guess is the old starter had a bad bendix that would stick or something if it didn't mesh exactly with the ring gear.
I have the same problems, I need to take a photo of the broken part see if it's the same as yours. Two or three tries it catches. Still using 6V starter and same flexplate. Did you just buy a ring gear for a flywheel and weld it on the flexplate?
Yes. I actually bought a good used standard flywheel and pressed the ring gear off of it. Cutting the old ring gear off and welding the new one on squarely is tricky, but I'd rather do that then waste an actual power glide flex plate. This old power glide stuff isn't getting any easier to find but you can still buy new standard ring gears last I checked.
Just for clarification, there are three separate issues here that have been or are being addressed. 1. Car is an ongoing project and has problems pop up from time to time. The old 6 volt starter gets hot if I crank on it too long trying to start the motor (for whatever unrelater reason). So tried switching to a 12 volt starter, but learning more about how to maintain the motor so it'll start right awayour has been a better solution. 2. Tried using a 12 volt starter but didn't swap the flywheel. After tearing up the gear and having to fix it, went back to the 6 volt starter. 3. Dealing with 6 volt starter not meshing with ring gear.
I think once I get my engine back together I'll have to mess around with mine and check how the starter meshes with the ring gear and see if shimming it will help. I'm not missing any teeth but it's like you have where part of the teeth are wore off on part of the ring gear.
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