Has anybody made a full floater early ford banjo rearend? I know it has done before, but I would like to see some pictures. Thanks Matt Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Never did it...but one of the techniques was to saw off the banjo's wheel/hub bearing extensions and bolt on the floater axle end from a 3/4 ton...this was done long ago with studs sawed off of Ford truck housings, later with cast aluminum replicas from circle track parts places. The different rears used the same backing plate flanges, which thus offered a natural point of attachment and alignment. Axles were also 3/4 ton Ford or aftermarket equivalents...no idea what spider gears were used. The general approach allowed conversion with mostly stock parts or the much lighter stubs and hub/drum assemblies from the aftermarket. The floater stubs were also used up front, I understand, as a safety measure in a sport in which the front wheels had a major tactical role beyond simply rolling...
Thanks Bruce! I, too, wanted to know how this was done....for a vintage sprint car rear axle. The 3/4T truck axle might be hard to locate?
I suspect one goal was handling, because the 3/4 ton axle weighed a lot, a major problem in unsprung weight for a race car. The conversion allowed use of the lighter car axle (with or without QC) with hubs that could be used as bumpers/battering rams in normal circle tracking. 3/4 ton stuff slowly morphed into much lighter, much more expensive stuff with the champ type QC center and aluminum aftermarket everything else, and took over as engine horsepower went waaay up in later years.
3/4 ton axle stubs should be Magna-fluxed especially at the fillet area where the inner bearing rides on the stub. They are crack prone. These old (pre-52 Ford or Studebaker) trucks most likely been overloaded too many times and driven on some terribly rough terrain. I converted a 9" Ford housing to run these 3/4ton stubs, hubs and axles on a dirt track car in 1981, thinking I'd achieved a bulletproof set-up. Broke 4 or 5 stubs before Magna-fluxing the remaining spares --- non were crack-free! Ordered a pair of new ones (I do not know the steel used, but quality of workmanship was excellent) installed them and problem solved. I suggest you go find the Frankland website, they may still sell these stubs (rear spindles).
The Timkin axle that the guys get the hubs from are worthless to the guys with that era of trucks. As they have a very low ratio 4.88 or worse and its hard to get brake parts for them. I swapped in a Dana 60 and scrapped working axle a year ago for that very reason.
These photos show what is involved, you must machine the old bearing snout off of the V-8 housings. As others have stated, the original 3/4 ton floater ends can be machined to work. The second photo is of one we built, using a currently available weld-on snout, that has a flange welded and machined to fit. I have used Frankland units, but they are no longer available.
My little bro has a Halibrand V8 setup with the floater axles. All old Ford parts were used it seems. I'll PM him and see if he has any pics.
More pics, the next choice is axles, semi-floater (flanged axles shown), or the use of drive flanges with axles with splines on both ends (full floaters on the black car). Either way the gear carrier must be bored out and spider gears installed.
Does anyone know where you can still get weld on snouts? They seem to be becoming phased out, so nobody stocking them anymore?
I got 'em. The trick with the weld ons is that if you want the stock axle width, you have to cut the axle trumpets and there goes your spring perches. And then, you need a fixture to keep everything in line when you weld them on. DO NOT assume the trumpets are concentric with the differential. I bet you can guess how I know this. Another tidbit I have is a spool for a V8 banjo that accepts the truck (or aftermarket) 12 spline axles.
Does anyone know a good source for the wide five full float drums? I have a Franklin rear I would like to run in my A but need the drums.
I did mine using a Coleman Racing kit. I had a machinist friend make me shaft and center piece to hole the stubs in place when I welded them to the housings. Really loved the set up. My car was hit by a drunk driver a few weeks ago and it broke the rear end into two (actually many) parts so it looks like I get to do it again. Maybe I will take pics and do a "how to". Rex
Since no matter what you do, it requires machine work, new axles, new side gears, etc - you can probably accomplish it a few ways - depending on what you're doing with spring hangers, desired wheel types, brakes, etc. There is a ton of late-model 'Grand National' (and other) full-floater stuff available - with a variety of weld on types. This stuff is used a lot of late-model track cars running the big quick changes. As noted above, one really needs to use an end-to-end 'alignment' bar that picks up the carrier/differential bearings and ensures that everything is square end-to-end. It goes through the whole rear-end, usually with slip-on bearing adapters for different rear end setups. I made mine starting with a precision ground bar - then made the adapters for different rear end styles/setups. Checkout this page - will give you some ideas on snout options: http://www.colemanracing.com/Spindle-Snouts-C298.aspx
Jeez, B&S, that looks like you took a mighty whack. I hope you're ok and let it go at that. Can you post a pic of the alignment device? I have an old Alston fixture.
I don't have time to get it out this weekend, betting ready to take a 18 hour trip down to the tip of Florida to pickup a new 'XMas present' for myself!
Am I over-simplifying this by assuming I can take a Winters center with 3/4 ton EF bells and mate them up to later-model dually axle tubes? I realize I would have to (probably) find custom axle shafts.... Any thoughts on this? Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Matt, Not sure if your original question got answered. Marty gave you some excellent advice and pictures of a very neat set-up. I would ask you a couple of questions that might help determine what pieces may be needed. What wheel bolt pattern are you wanting to end up with? What pieces do you have now? What are you trying to accomplish with the full floater set-up?
The secret to adapting any hubs to a Quick Change is to mate the spindles you want to use to the axle housing of the hubs you want to use. The most common diameter for the race car stuff is 3" tubes. Once you get that done, you can get axles made to fit. So, what do you have and what do you want to have when you are through?
The Smith boys at Hot Rod Works do some fine work on banjo rear ends. http://www.hotrodworks.com/catalog/index.php/
did you find some hub/drums? i have a few. the SRE hub/drum assemblies are really nice for the street. 1 3/4" x 12" also have 2 SRE 2 piece. 2 1/2" x 12"
i fitted 28 spline side gears and used stock car racer double spline axles and drive plates. they were free. Moser re-splined the one end. i weled on a flame cut ring and machined it to accept aftermarket bolt on floaters. you call them stubs.
you can get bolt on or weld on full floating spindles in wide five or 5 on 5 dim. you can also get spindles welded on a 3" tube from your local circle track supplier or do a search on the internet most places you can order on line
Damn that's nice !! So you made a hot rod from a race car ? !! Good to see it go the other way......top drawer man !! That car is bad ass.
Do you want a v8 car styles rear or the 3 quarter truck style rear? Stock car guys used a pair of the short bell out of late fourtie's and up. 3 quarter ton on writers , Franklin etc. quick change centers...most were aluminum racing wide 5 hubs
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