The alternative is, of course, a plain Z, just pulled off a bit more elegantly than Montier had. It's moot anyway if there are splash aprons. A quick Photoshop, just a ±3" Z and otherwise stock:
Oh my god, someone's trying to think outta the box! Please stop - nothing good has ever come out of that. We must all do and think exactly the same! Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Ok, that ham fisted z also looks to be paired with a stock axle. I haven't done it, but I know stock mechanical brakes can be used along with a dropped axle, maybe they hadn't figured that one out yet. I'd be willing to bet the rear of that thing has a Z as well to Evenly lower the car but I must say I'm just guessing. A traditional rear Z is quick Easy and good for 3" drop but does require a floor modification. Visually, 3*-4* rake nose down just looks better. However if you were to look at the 33-36 willys coupe, it's belt line is on a curve , a line segment of a Fibonacci-esq look, a slightly further projection towards the hood than this illustration. . I wish I could reverse one of these pics so the curve could be transposed. But it doesn't take much vision to see the similarities although some vision is required. The reason I mention the willys is that because of that curve in the belt line and the curve on the bottom the stance can be at any inclination and still look stunning with some manipulation of the roof's angle. Your photo shop has a kink at the cowl , a kink into a car full of straight lines- I think that throws people into a tizzy fit that they can't explain.
Yes, I think sidemounts on that would work very well. I think Montier were trying to use as many stock parts as possible. The Willys came to mind as I was doing this. I think you're right about the kink at the cowl. It requires that the observer squint, because the idea isn't nearly done yet. Remove all the character lines and hide the frame, and the "broken" look largely disappears. Here's one with a fabric body with an overall shape identical to the stock coupé. All I did was bring a bit of convexity into the window sill line. Of course Weymann-style fabric bodies have a look of their own, which some will not like:
You can always tell who has a flexible mind reading the comments on threads like these. I like what you're doing but I'm getting hung up visually on the vertical line between the cowl and the hood. The chrome trim emphasizes it and it ruins the flow. If you tip that line and maybe the louvers it might flow better. Model As are very blocky cars in my eye. Once you start tilting the horizontals, especially like you did with the long hood photoshop where the roof and the frame line tip different directions forming the insinuation of an arrow, it seems like the vertical lines need to move too.
Ned , how is it possible that this montier fella's purpose of trying to use stock parts is his goal when there is such a major modification to the main part of the car, the frame. That would certainly entail drive line modifications as well. He must have had another motivation that drove his decisions. Model A cars look very good in few different styles of configurations. Start messing with the body lines and they loose their identity as ford model A cars. Maybe the cars can be better as something else but they stop being a model A long before they become that something else. I personally haven't had the luxury of having the European design elements of the early cars being seared in like the American versions have been. Still no matter where you go, fords are the most popular choice for hot rod fodder. There's a reason for that I believe. Perhaps it's the shear availability or maybe it's more than that. I'm trying to say that it would require the same effort to reproduce any other car
I think Montier were trying to use as many stock parts as possible. Ned, this image depicts a rough canvas...and tells much about how the reveal-lines, etc, shape the form! Most-helpful. [/QUOTE]
my eye goes right to the cowl area on the original photo shop, it looks peaked. maybe mess around with the varied thickness of the running boards, take the wedge out and see what happens.
You should clean degrees off the frame before you paint it. Use a steam cleaner or Gunk and a pressure washer.
I thought some Montier had a dropped beam, maybe the T's, anyway why not go underslung all around so you could have the frame level to the ground, then flip the horns if needs be. Parallel leaf would solve some problems, but that would make some interesting sheet metal work. To me the moleskin body still looks broken. To solve that maybe piecut the body.
I came across this thread a few days ago....and at first, I thought Ned's concept was a little strange, but then I got to playing around with the original image and incorporating some of the ideas that were suggested. I laid the car back sort of like a taildragger ( I left the rear concrete to illustrate the amount of angle), sectioned the splash apron, raise the fenders, removed all the reveals and extra bits, chopped and pinched the top forward and finally did a narrow pie cut the length of the body up to the rear 1/4 and pinched the front. So essentially, it sits lower out back, but doesn't look "broken". I don't know....I guess it doesn't look too bad.
Go with Ruben's...love that, except I can't delete those A body lines/reveals. Just can't. But his artist's eye is dead on.
Yes that evil thinking outside the box thing rears its head again. As for me I was up all night thinking outside the box. Ned I like the fact that you are willing to experiment keep it up. And I will continue to do what my sig file says. Jim Ford
Montier did later build a Model A based racer with two four-cylinder engines making a straight eight. This was an attempt to keep up while they hoped to get a supply of the new Ford V8. It raced a few times with a best result of 6th for Ferdinand Montier (the son) at the GP de La Baule on August 17th 1932. It was listed as a 4.1 litre capacity so it seems they may have used two of the smaller engines that were sleeved down to 2 litres for the French market. The photo is from the Dieppe GP of 1933 where Ferdinand qualified 5th and finished 13th. This car in some records of this race is listed erroneously as a Ford V8 Speciale.
Ned, you are obviously an intelligent man and what you post on such as "specials" are usually tastefully but DAMN DUDE! What your looking to do to that A is seriously f..... up!
That looks like one I sold last Thanksgiving. (2015). I sold it to someone who turned around and sold it again on eBay. May I ask you when/where you bought it?
this thread is 2 yrs old, you sold yours one year ago Mine looked like that too until I changed wheels Thats the standard A look
Thanks for this. I knew about the twin-engined car but wasn't aware that any photos exist. Very often the low-chassis Le Mans Model As are misidentified as it. Do you have any more Montier info? I've been searching forever for anything on the road-going low-chassis A Tudor advertised in 1930: were any built?
You won't know unless you do the experiment, and not every experiment is a success. Lesson learned: the reverse-rake frame will work but not if you express the rail line on the outside of the car.
Back to the original Montier...I don't mind the look of that Z, it looks solid and purposeful. It could, though, pretty well disappear by extending that rear lower stub of hood up to the tire to cover the jog. What the Montier needs visually is simply a shortened radiator shoved back to the stock location! Moving the radiator of a pre-1933 car ahead of the axle to any significant degree is always an abomination. That one correction would make that thing a hell of a cool racer. And, back then, there was no shortage of craftsmen quite capable of cutting a few rows out of a Ford radiator, probably at a cost of 50 cents an hour plus three cents for the solder.
There was no such car as a 'Le Mans Model A'. Montier only raced there in 1923, '24 and '25 in Model T Fords. He did race Model As later in both hill climbs, sports car races and even a few Grands Prix still taking the battle to the big names like Bugatti, Alfa Romeo and Mercedes. As for the road-going cars, certainly some were built; apart from hand drawn catalogue illustrations some were photographed, but I have no way of knowing how many were made. I wrote a small book about Montier and his 'French Racing Fords' which is still available for AU$25 including postage. I researched this for some time and translated the whole story from French. It tells of his early career, his racing years, and although I did mention the later road cars there are only a couple of illustrations as the page count was dictated by the publisher. By the way, those old stories that turn up occasionally that have Montier racing in the French GP of 1912 are wrong. There was a Model T entered in the Touring Class by Henri Depasse, but Montier did not start competing until about 1921. Here is a link; http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Charles-...150085?hash=item4b0d44a685:g:dtMAAOSwiDFYP0NL If that doesn't work try searching ebay for item # 322345150085.
Agreed! The pig-snout radiator position is awful. I wonder if the location of the front Z had something to do with the road-going cars. The top trailing edge would have coincided with the rear of the front fender, where it meets the splash apron. I stand corrected! I must acquire that book. Montier is an obscure subject. Though I know more than most I still know relatively little about it. It is good to find someone who clearly knows considerably more! Do you have any photos of the road-going As?
Yes, there are a few, which prove that at least 6 or 7 different cars were built. Like this 2 seat Cabriolet on lowered chassis. None of them had that forward mounted radiator though which suggests that was either due to an extreme lowering of the frame putting the axle and spring where the radiator should be, or more likely the road going cars were only slightly lowered using a combination of a dropped axle and a flatter spring. In the available photos none of them look as low as the race cars. (Can't give too much away, I still have a few copies of the book to sell!)
A minor grail for me! I don't think that the above relationship of fender tops to grille shell top can be achieved with axle/spring modifications. The fender tops are almost level with the bonnet side hinge. Note also the line of the bonnet sides' bottom edges. It isn't quite the same as the marketing illustration I'd seen, but it is far from stock. The aforementioned illustration also shows the grille shell in the forward position, unfortunately. I'll just have to buy that book! Meanwhile I'll post the pic on the Coachbuilt Early Fords thread.
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