Hi Guys, been trouble shooting a problem with my wagon project. the motor was in my 51 that last two summers and to save money while the 51 was in the shop, I decided to install it into my 53 wagon. It is a 327 sbc basically stock internals running a edelbrock intake a 600 cfm carb and pertronix distributor and. T350 trans. rebuilt a few yrs ago (but only on the road the last two summers (maybe 5000 on it). Since being put on the road it has had an issue with blowing smoke coming off idle (like when leaving a stop light). I believe the smoke is due to the heads, bad valve guide has been suggested. It ran good even with this issue, drove it to California last year with no issues. (this is a problem I need to address but not my current issue , I wanted to give you some background on the motor. The current problem. On the way down to the GG show last weekend (first real drive), it bog/ hesitated twice on the freeway at about 60mph (I was about 7 miles into my journey) so I jumped off the freeway and hit the streets for the remainer of the drive. it ran fine at 35. I stopped at got gas.. almost immediately, it lost power and struggled to gain RPMs (as if my gas tank was dirty and clogging the carb (I had not put a filter in line) . I got it to registration and let it sit for 15 min. Fired it up and it cruised into the fairgrounds just fine. On the way home driving on the streets (about 4 miles into the drive, it started again. I limped it home on the streets the remained 15 miles. I at times had it floored and the car struggled to gain speed (it was not running smooth). Its weird, it will clean up and run good for a second or two and then back to hestigation/ down on power... I thought it was a dirty gas tank (since it started after filling the gas tank) Since then, I have drained half the tank, blew out the fuel line, added two filters (one between tank and pump and one between carb and pump), removed the carb from the car, took the top off the carb and cleaned it out and replaced the mechanical fuel pump with a 110gph pump (I wanted a 80gph but wanted to be able to rotate the base to help with running fuel lines.. the first filters is getting some debris/ dirt but the second (between pump and carb is clean) not enough dirr in the first it looks like to impact fuel going to the carb. Today after replacing lines and the above filters and pump it runs worse (all replacement and cleaning done in last few days).. barely wants to idle, struggles to start at times, light popping at times. I have a new tank on order but now I am think it might not be the fuel and be something else. (but not sure what). When it does fire and run, it slow to rev, almost feel like there is a vibration and it just takes more pedal to keep it running. I am lost at my next move (other than replacing the gas tank which is in the plan I am now wondering if it is something else
Another thought would be a stuck needle and seat. Pretty common with Edelbrock carbs when things get even a little dirty. I'd try that, and if it cure the situation, also add a pressure regulator to the fuel line, as again the Edelbrocks are fairly pressure sensitive. I keep mine set at 4lbs.
Sometimes you can pull junk past the needle and seat by holding a hand over the top of the carb while you rev it a bit. The engine may stall, but I've had it work a few times. But I do see a carb rebuild in your future.
The Carb is two yrs old (about 5000 miles). I took the top off the carb and cleaned the jets and needle area, there was some dirt in it. The carb is spotless now so I know that is not the issue. The fuel cap is new (not sure there is a vent in the cap. I noticed the first time I opened the cap when the tank was low, it gave off a suchion sound (as if it was not vented) and the tank to my knowledge has no vent. will have to look into that more (maybe run with the cap loose to see what happens.)
Could you be experiencing the same thing that happened to me with my 327? I had a broken valve spring. HRP
Engine man, I have not found a vented cap yet. Still looking for one. I guess I could take it for a drive with no cap on it (just put some tape of the opening (with some air gaps). Danny, I need to take the valve cover off to look if the above idea does not work.
Edelbrock may not have this filter, but I had the same problems you describe on a holley carb.. It had a porous bronze filter in the carb body, under/inside the supply pipe fitting.. It would idle, but get a few revs on, and it would starve.. Quick fix was to take it out and all was good.. Just a thought..
I would start with looking at any differences between the '51 and the '53. Like different air cleaner that could have bent or blocked the carb vents. Different distributer, coil. Anything that is not the same as the last time it ran could be a potential problem. You seem to have the gas tank problem fixed, except for a vented cap perhaps.
Sure sounds like the cap is causing an issue but you said there was crap in the first filter you put on, this mean some got to the carb before it was fitted. I bet there is more crap in the carb and it loves to get stuck in the emulsifying tube/s. As said above, carb rebuild is in the very near future. JW
A little dirt in a carb goes a long way and deep into the carb. Those carbs only ask you for 2 things, correct fuel pressure and cleanliness. Good thing they are easy to clean up.
All this sounds fuel related even the smoke. I bet your plugs are a sign that your running rich. You can can clean that carb till the cows come home but if you are not blowing out the passages with compressed air, your just wasting your time.
Hi Guys, The entire engine was pulled and dropped into the new chassis with no changes (I unbolted the motormounts and fuel line and discounted a few wires and moved the enttire assembly to the new car. )being the same basic chassis, motor mounts etc.. it was as simple of a swap that could have been done. Back to the Carb: when I took the top off the carb and pulled the jets and needles. I cleaned the passages and did put air to the inlet and jet area to make sure nothing was remaining. Did not see anything else coming out. (not to say it still might be dirty as tight corners in hidden area that might break loose after going back together. (might have to pull the top off once again to see how clean it is now. what will a carb rebuild do (what comes in a kit?)
How does it run cold? Does it only act stupid after driving a short bit? If I am not mistaken, the fuel tank should have a vent line that just vents under the car somewhere. Make sure it isn't clogged up. The gas cap removal is a good idead to see if the problem goes away but it is probably the tank vent, not the cap that is the problem.
A rebuild kit will make you take the carb all apart to change all of the seals and gaskets, needle and seat.
Quick update. I let the motor sit all weekend (disgusted and tired of working on it). I went out this mornng, pull the gas cap and put tape over the opening (with some open area). The car fired right up and idled nice. I thought maybe that was the fix, but then after a minute or two it started to act up again and ran rough and then died. I fired it up again and it was back to its normal problem (rough running and slower to rev, did not want to idle on its own without adding some throttle. I also looked closer to the gas cap and it does look to have some spring loaded vent (little blue piece in the center of the cap).. not sure how much pressure it takes but with a small screw driver I can easily push the center in (I believe this is a vent that opens under pressure ??) so it does not appear the gas cap is the issue and it is something else. I do not see a vent anywhere on the tank. There are three openings on the tank (bottom drain plug, fuel filler neck (no vent tube on it) and the hole for the sending unit. No vent. I did try blowing air from the fuel filler down into the tank (held rags around the air nozzle and later I blew air from the fuel line side into the tank (enough to blow the gas cap off the filler tube (it was jus sitting on it). I guess it is time to finish draining the tank and pull it out.
There's really a LOT of hidden places and passages for crud to get into on a carburetor. And this illustration just shows the idle circuits. As already stated, you really need to get into everywhere with some compressed air.
Unless there's huge chunks of crap or a loose rag blocking the fuel pickup, the filter will take care of the little stuff. Thats its job. You have 2 filters now, but you had ZERO before. (2 is not better than 1) All this is akin to closing the barn door after the horse ran away. Removing the carb top and seeing dirt in the bowls is your 100% verification that the carb needs to come off and on the bench for a thorough tear down and surgical cleaning. You can drop the tank but and that may indeed need to happen but the drivability problem is not in the tank. You have a better chance of seeing bigfoot than You'll have to be able to get the carb cleaned without complete tear down. Just trying to save you some time and aggravation.
31 Vicky is right on, you must remove the carb and blow/clean out ALL passages. follow the path of fuel flow through all idle passages and high speed passages, and if that picture is of your carb (the one that claymart posted) then yes that is a filter that you asked about...replace it or remove it, you have others now.
31 Vicky, WHen I cleaned the carb, I did take it off and had it on my bench, I removed the top, pull the needles and jets, cleaned everthing I could see and blew air thru the Jet Holes and fuel inlet area. nothing came out? Is there potential for remaining debris, sure (if the idea 49 ratfink does not fix it, i will take the carb back apart and try cleaning it again). NOTE: just spoke with Edelbrock Tech and they told me there are two small filters in the float area I probably need to check. 49Ratfink, I am going to try your idea of pumping gas from a can and bypass the tank to eliminate the tank (or confirm). rramjet. The issues occurs right away (needle of temp gauge has not had time to move). It does have a pertronix distributor. anyone know how to test one of those
Yep... That's the fuel filter in that particular carb. Actually, I just posted that picture as a generic example of what's going on inside most modern carbs. Your specific carb may be laid out a little differently but should have a similarly designed idle circuit.
Put a timing light on it and see if it is missing sparks, Then your alternate fuel source if it checks OK. Gary
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