Projects '32 5W - In Search of my VIN

Hello, obviously new here and in awe of he knowledge I've come across while perusing these pages, so thought I'd try my luck on getting some sagely advice...

I recently purchased my dream car, an orig all steel '32 5w, on orig '32 frame, after saving up forever, and I am at the point of sorting out how I'm going to properly register it, getting all my ducks in a row, etc.

It's important to me to register it as the orig Henry Ford steel '32.

The issue is, I purchased it from a state that doesnt require a title or VIN, just a bill of sale and I don't have a stamped VIN on the obviously visible part of the frame, near the firewall (I researched where the VIN is usually stamped).

I looked into the "Specially Constructed Vehicles" program here in CA, which seems the obvious choice, however that applies to "kit cars" really and not cars you are trying to put back together with all orig parts. And this wont give me a proper '32 title, anyway. The only thing I dont want to keep orig is the engine/trans which I have a '74 351W and C4 trans.

Anyway, trying to keep it all on the up and up I am looking at my next logical steps to take, first I have been trying (unsuccessfully as yet) to back-track any and all prev owners to try and find a previously registered VIN associated with the car and hope when I lift the body off the frame there will be the matching VIN. But I'm assuming the 80+ years of mother nature and sanding will not be kind to me, in that dept. And not sure if old paperwork that doesnt correspond to something stamped on the frame or body will help me anyway.

So that being said, I'm trying to come up with any other ideas on this. I'm hoping I don't have to find another donor frame, with a visible VIN, and swap everything over, which is probably a last resort.

Any suggestions would be appreciated along this line... along with any tips on lifting the body, which I admittedly havn't attempted yet.

 

The VIN (serial number) should be stamped two additional places on the top of the left frame rail hidden by the body. The VIN also appeared on the flywheel housing for the 4 cylinder and on the transmission for the V8. The DMV doesn't like to use these last two locations since this parts are relatively easy to replace. A better question might be "what happened to the VIN on the top of the frame rail near the steering?" I wonder if the previous owner ground off the VIN and used it for another vehicle? I assume you have seen this site: http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_serialnumbers.htm.

Charlie Stephens

 

When you lift the body, the VIN will be right about in the middle of where the wheel well rests. Your best bet is taking the frame and body to AAA. That's what I did.

 

Maybe there is something that will raise the stamped number that is worn down. The police use something like acid to check for serial numbers ground off of illegal firearms.

 

Usually, people who say they can't find the serial number on an original Ford frame are either looking in the wrong spot, or it's very rusty. Even a very rusty frame should show a bit of number in between the pits.

Your '32's number should be on the top left rail, inside edge, right next to the inner cowl band. If the body is already off, look near the shallow notch on the frame top with the cowl band hole in it. The two additional places are the top of the left side rail in the middle of the door area, and the kick up over the rear axle.

 

The serial number stamping on the left frame rail can be in several places as noted above, and I'll throw one more variable in the mix. I've got a '32 chassis that is an early production 4 cylinder unit (no forward pointing legs on the "K" member and didn't get the "recall" dealer installation. Should be call it an I member?), Since it's a 4 cyl. the serial begins with AB and it was only half exposed from the firewall foot, the rest was only visible with firewall removed. Light sanding and mild acid wash brought up the numbers well enough to read, and note that they were the proper shape to be authentic. The other two locations are almost never able to be brought up because the webbing held moisture well enough that pitting ate them up.

 

Here is one suggested method:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tech-raising-the-dead-in-dr-blutos-lab.224974/

 

My '34 had it in 3 places, left frame rail just forward of firewall, about midway back, and about at rear crossmember. Good luck convincing the "special vehicle i.d. specialist cop" that these are the original numbers and there was no engine number these years. Oh yeah, arguing and producing documentation just serves to insult his ego and gets you nowhere. How do I know this?

 

Even "a state that doesnt require a title or VIN, just a bill of sale" should have the correct serial # on the bill of sale you got with it. If it doesn't I'm afraid you got a worthless piece of paper. I bought a car ( 1932 ford) a few years ago from one of those states, the bill of sale showed the # that was on the frame where it belongs. I was able to have that transfered into a title from my state, in my name. No inspection was required. look harder for the serial (vin) # on the top of the left frame rail just inside of the firewall mount ( some call them feet) you don't have to take the body off to see it.. Are you sure you have a real `32 Ford frame, made by the Ford Motor Company in 1932 ?

 

A 'new customer' brought me a '32 Five window body and frame in '79. He left it at my shop so I could find the VIN.
I waited until closing, then took a look at the frame. Laughed out loud...it was one of the early 'Just a Hobby' repops, with the large 3/8" radii at the frame channels.
When I told the guy, he was adamant that I:
1) didn't know where to look;
2) someone had ground the numbers off;
3) it was a rare factory frame that predated the numbering operation...

I charged him two hours labor. Then threatened to charge him storage if he didn't get it out of there!
Ahhh...Sure miss that shop. And just a few of the customers.

 

This sounds pretty mad scientistish... Anyone get this to work..?

 

This is obviously, the key to this and I asked a couple "experts" who said it was a '32 frame, however, i cant visually tell,.. Any sure fire tips on verifying that the frame is orig '32 before I lift the body..?

 

Pictures.

 

Give us some close up, in focus, photos of the outside of the frame where the firewall bolts on. We want to see where the front of the cowl bracket is bolted through the frame.
Give us some pictures!

 

Years ago I had a vintage Lotus which I had to have the CHP verify the VIN on, the VIN was imperceptible. They sent a guy from the stolen vehicle dept over and he used a similar method to find it.

 

No actual experience with Bluto's method, but he is a very serious restorer of insanely rare and valuable cars.
If frame is real...start by getting some paint stripper in there at firewall area, examine with powerful flashlight at different angles for indications of number...or grinding.
If you see anything...build a little dam around the area with modeling clay or something and fillitup with evaporust, which is entirely harmless and very effective.
Don't do anything abrasive on faint numbers!
A real number should have a star at each end:
V8 would be *18-number between one and somewhere in the 200,000's*
B would be either *B or *AB-number in low 5,000,000 range*

If it is repro...in my opinion you do not securely own anything until you persuade state to issue an assigned number and plaque based on bill of sale.

 

You might try contacting the local Early Ford V8 Club chapter (earlyfordv8.org) and see if they have anyone that could drop by and advise you. PM me if you need help finding a local chapter. Maybe if you attended a meeting you could identify someone that could help. If you posted your general location maybe someone would volunteer to come over or at least point you to the local Early Ford V8 Club. If you are hesitant to ask strangers over I can relate to that.

Charlie Stephens

 

Here are a bunch of photos taken when the car was purchased.
http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/beardedsk8er/library/1932 Ford
Car is still in route to me, so I havn't been able to take more and better shots but this may be enough to say something about the frame.

 

Hmmmm...looks like frame horns are tacked onto something with different dimensions. In engine shot, I do not see the ding in the frame near firewall, and it looks like there is a funny change in frame contour about at center of engine.
Not enough information for definitive answer, but I thing the frame is fabricated.

 

I studied the pics the best I could and I don't want to sound like a know it all or a smart ass, but I can't find one piece or section of that frame that would even hint of 1932 Ford. The front is mostly fabricated, the rear might be 33 or newer if it is even Ford. Notice the rivets? Not 32. Don't know what the front horns are. If the seller represented this as a 32 frame and you paid a price that 32 parts go for I would seriously consider getting my money back. If the frame work is an indication of the body work you're in trouble. Notice the brake lines on the rear end and the 1 1/2 clearance to the frame? If you got a good deal on it and want to keep it get a good rod shop to inspect it or contact the local NSRA safety rep to look at it. Moving the brake lines is easy, do what ever is necessary to make it safe. Search all the Cali title threads on here, there are lots of them, everybody has a story to tell about registration. Lots of luck!!

 

I'm with Bruce here. I'm not sure you have a Genuine'32 Ford (OG) frame here. It almost looks like a later Ford frame modified for the body to fit and some other frame horns tacked on in front. We could sure use some pics with the full car in it.

 

redo 32 typed faster than I did but I am in agreement with him.

 

Doesn't look 32 to me. Those two rivet heads underneath where the kickup starts indicate 33 or later if it is Ford. Like I said in my PM, need to see the indent and the belly to verify. There are many reproduction frames which are well made. I'd have to see more pictures but what I saw so far makes me think you're probably going to have to start from scratch. 90% of what I can see underneath I'd junk. Front axle set up is dangerous. Chassis looks fabricated and not very well. Crossmember inadequate. Inadequate rear axle and wishbone clearance. Brakes? Missing firewall. Looks like you just bought a 32 5W coupe body and some parts.
Ed

 

I would use a independent DMV service instead of CHP. CHP wants you to fail. A good service won't cheat but they also won't go out of their way to find flaws. I had to use a dental pick to clean up the VIN numbers on my car. Fortunately they matched the title.

 

I can't tell what the frame is but I'm sure I know what it is not..nothing about it looks like a Deuce frame. HRP

 

Just like a train wreck, I had to go back & look at the pics again. Wish you would have posted before you bought it. I think most of us old guys would have told you to pass. Heim ends are a no-no on suspension & steering, there are loose wiring ends hanging, the coil over bushings are shot because of misalignment of the brackets. All of the angle iron brackets and the welding, if not suspicious are at least tacky, as is the headlight conduit. Don't get discouraged, you have a running, driving car that you can have fun with and fix or trade up to better quality when you know more what to look for. Hopefully you will get a current registration along with the bill of sale. If another state approved the numbers, Cal should too. Don't say I told you to, but I would stamp those numbers in the frame in the proper location and see if it gets past DMV. Better yet everybody says they have better luck with AAA. Let us know how it goes. The '32 Bug is hard to shake. You've been warned!!

 

I can't see anything that really looks like a 32 frame. I agree with the posts above. I started this post earlier but did not want to bear the bad news. It really is a hatchet job. So SORRY!

 

Hi, appreciate the honest responses,.. I wouldnt have posted pics unless i wanted your various experienced and scrutinizing eyes to give their take on it.. I also knew when i bought it the frame was somewhat pieced together and was really going for the fact it was a straight orig steel car from firewall to tail lights and it at least had all working parts with a motor and trans combo i liked..with the plan to be able to drive it while i fix its issues.. I would say i wanted something closer to a rat rod than a show car,.. And it kinda sounds like thats what i have here.. Im not disappointed as I got the '32 bug and had to start somewhere with something i could afford which is getting harder and harder to find something affordable..

 

mission accomplished then