I've been following this discussion since it started and I appreciate the advice and analysis. Based on the pix of the 1-6 rods and the new ARP bolts; I wonder if the big ends were resized properly. Maybe just another thing to check. I've never ground a crank, but I've ground plenty of shafts and I would guess the grinding wheel was not dressed often enough or too soft a wheel was used. Definitely new shop needed.
Was the crank done by the shop or an outside service? I've had exchange cranks before and they always have worked out just fine. That is a good question for the machine shop. Signs do point to the journals having an uneven surface finish. I always measured up the crank myself, even going as far as installing the bearings and checking clearances with an intra mike or bore gauge. These days, I would be using a CMM on the rod assemblies. Bob
There are actually about 6 rod bolts that have this appearance. It didn't seem like the dipstick was interfering ing any way with the crank etc. if say its a sharp knocking sound, not incredibly loud but definitely detectable. The best I could describe it would be as if you took a very light ball peen hammer and started tapping on the block. I hear you on the YouTube videos showing engine knock. They're better than nothing but the sound quality usually blows.
It was done in house, I could tell I got the same crank back. They had to add Mallory metal to balance it. The engine seemed to run very smooth. I just wonder if they took a short cut on grinding/ polishing the journals
No I haven't but will. Suppose lobes could have been going away but not visually evident. Based on what I've been reading however your noise is more of a knock than the valve train pecking I had.
Maybe they missed something on the final grind. Took it to the final size too soon and called it a day. The first thing I do when I get a crank back is to run a fingernail across the ground surface and it should feel very smooth. Every crank that I get back or is fit to re-use without a grind gets a quick polish with crocus cloth. It does bother me to see that chunk of crap that went through the oil pump, but it doesn't explain that pattern on the bearings. Bob
Plastiguage it again but try to get it across the whole bearing. I'm guessing plastiguage will be shaped like an hourglass. And it's time to pull the lifters. I could see some of the same crap that went thru the oil pump do that to a lifter bore. Lifter gets stuck on the burr momentarily then the valve spring pushes it back to the cam and landing with a nice "thunk"
New pump, new pump rod. Still could be the problem, but I couldn't detect noise coming from that area.
Yup. Tonight the intake comes off and I look at the valve train. At this point I think it's best to have the short block checked out by the machine shop. If you were to take the short block in for inspection, would you include the cam and lifters if they weren't damaged or keep em at home?
I think some real grit went through this engine. Something was trapped somewhere in a oil galley or somewhere and when the oil got good and hot it flushed out. I'd have cut the oil filter open with a big knife in the first 5 minutes after seeing that oil pump. I believe it'll have enough grit & steel to be easily recognized.
Check the pics I took of the oil filter. Really not much if anything in there. I didn't think there was too much of an issue after I changed my oil from the break in. The oil was pretty clean aside from assembly lube residue.
May not be the noise buy maybe the source of some of the metal. Did you use a double roller chain and was the block clearance for it.
I tend to agree with this theory. I would have to see the crank and bearings to really assess them, but it does look like something prematurely wiped out the bearings and that chunk out of the oil pump gear is hard as woodpecker lips. Bob
Do you still have your oil filter from the break in? Idk, mine stay in a bucket till the bucket is full, maybe you do the same
This was the timing chain used. I did not do any clearancing for it. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-2100
Maybe I'm seeing things but the rod cap in #138 looks very rough on the surface where it meets the rod. It seems strange that they would have to add Mallory to balance your crankshaft as well. Better pack up everything and go to a different machine shop. That really sucks!
Oh, sorry, I missed photos of the filter. It's really hard for me to tell much from the photos anyhow. My eyesight isn't great. (It isn't even mediocre. It's bad.)
Tonight I pulled the distributor, intake, rockers, pushrods, and lifters. The distributor gear was brand new, how dies this wear pattern look you you guys? And now for the good news.... All the rockers seemed fine an did not seem to have any interference with the retainers or studs. All the pushrods were straight with no unusual wear,I checked the springs again and they look good. All of the lifters spun freely in their bores, none of them were scratched or galled and they all seemed to have a subtle convex face. #7 exhaust seemed slightly flatter than the others so when I pull the cam I will scrutinize that lobe and measure it against the others. A couple lifter's faces appearance looked slightly different but they all seemed to have good shape etc. here are some pics of those.
Can you put the crank in with only the front and rear main bearings, and set up a dial indicator on the middle journal and see if its straight.
That's a great idea, however, at this point, I think I need to go and have my crank polished at the minimum.. I also wan to have my rods checked out etc. Either way, I'm going to have to pull the engine first. I will do what you suggested any time I build or tear down an engine though. Sounds like a good way to nip a problem at the bud. Thanks Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Distributor looks ok. At this point I think you are ready for the machine shop. Save the bearings to show to the machinist to check out. We will anxiously await the prognosis.
It just amazes me how some engines can get thrown together out of olds parts that have been kicked across the floor for decades, built on a dirt floor, no regard for balance, never see a torque wrench and live a long life. Then there's some that can't make it out of a machine shop with a "clean room" Baffling
It will rub above no1 cam bearing on the galley plug boss every time. Cast iron grit will cause havoc on bearings,and as stated the rod bolts are a bit alarming. If you go on federals explanations on bearing failure it gives many scenarios,you will find your failure there. As far as contact patterns left,every bearing has a certain amount of eccentricity being the widest at the parting lines.so polished in the 12 and 6 o'clock where the oil clearance is measured at and nowhere else is pretty much acceptable. Nothing replaces a measurement with a micrometer and a good bore guage. Plastiguage is debate able at best. Look closely at the bottom of the cylinder bores for contact with the rod bolts or at the cam lobes where the top of the rod bolts may contact. You have something eating something,be aware and leave no stone unturned. Good luck, Gary
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