Projects Late 60's Vintage Modified

Most old racers used leaf springs. those bolts look like someone tried an early 3 link setup. looks like it has a rear panhard bar. should have mounts somewhere forward on the frame for radius rods. I wonder if that 3 link was an unfinished suspension in preparation for the track going to pavement, as that was pretty much the hot setup on tar at the time.(1970-72) no way it was raced without some kind of mount to hold the rear straight.
For limited use, I see nothing wrong with good ole leafs. simple to setup, and not much to break. Although I don't think vintage racing today is quite the contact sport it was back then.
There was a time when you could get aftermarket gears for those old rears, however, I'm not sure today.
I went ahead and put out some feelers for my old cars. who knows, just might hit paydirt.

 

There are some mounts further up on the bottom of the frame for radius rods... But there's nothing on the rearend to hook them too. There wasn't any signs of welds or anything to show where it would have hooked. The bolts showed some wearing from where they rubbed up against the frame while driving, so I guess they tried it for a little while. My guess is when one bolt broke off of the rearend, they called it quits.

 

Check out my latest project......a little like yours......search on here for wild bill Murphy

 

Thats a pretty nice old racer, you've certainly come along way with it. I like the firewall setup in it

 

Gainin' little by little... Ordering a bunch of brake parts tonight. Also got the rearend welded up (around the bolts, and the perches used to mounted them) and put back together. Got the front-end painted a while ago, but forgot pictures before. Got a complete rear-end (actually for my birthday) just need to go and pick it up. I'll use the axles and probably the brake drums.. Keep the rest for spare parts.

 

Looks good.....keep up the good work.....where in nh are you?

 

A good friend of mine owned Monadnock Speedway over in Winchester, N.H.

I will ask William if he remembers ever seeing the car run there and who owned it.

I love modified racing. When the Nascar guys go to New Hampshire the best race of the weekend is the modified race for sure.

This past weekend was a perfect example of that with Ronnie Silk and Mike changing lead 17 times in a 100 lap race.

If Nascar needs any help trying to figure out how to put on a exciting race just look at the show there drivers put on. Many spectators stand for much of the race and no one leaves to use the restrooms for fear they will miss the action on the track.

Jimbo

 

Looking good. Are you going "Flemke" with the frontend? Is the flathead to be the power plant? If so, don't forget to cut every other impeller on those water pumps to slow the flow down, and be sure to pound 2 penny's in the block to restrict the flow to the top. Oh yeah, some 8n ford tractor points will give you a slightly hotter spark, but keep spares handy.
Be sure to keep these speed secret's under your hat. Don't want the competition to find out.

 

Gonna be a neat car. Clairmont was a favorite stop on the old NEAR tour, Sonny Feury always treated us right, would be fun to see your car running there again. By the way , it's true about the Mod Tour at New Hampshire, best race of the year, any division.

 

Thanks.. I'm in Central NH.

If you could ask that'd be great... Any little bit of history and assistance helps alot!

The Modifieds are the better show compared to the Winston Cup, that's why I always liked going to small local tracks more.. No giant crowds of people and just as good of racing, and you might actually know some of the drivers.

Definately have to keep those secrets to myself The plan is to use that flathead in the car.. Just have to find a 3 speed out of an F-1 and I should have all the drivetrain (minus the driveshaft). Not gunna go Flemke on this one, just sticking with the leaf springs they had in there... I think there was close to 10 springs!

Thanks, hopefully it'll have it's day to go round the track, but I think NEAR (or maybe it's STAR?) has too many safety restrictions that this car would probably never be able to pass. I'm planning on using as much of the original parts as I can, so it'll be without a fuel cell, full racing seat, etc. etc. I am going to get rid of the electric fuel pump and go back to the mechanical, probably safer there!

 

Been making some progress, but no real good pictures to show... Dropped the frame off to have it sandblasted, and the guy said early to mid next week he'll have it done so that's good news. Got some of my brake parts from Mac's a week and a half later, but had to cancel the brake shoes because they were backordered 6-8 weeks, so I ordered from another place a week ago and they haven't shown up yet either... Hopefully by the end of the week though.

Also pulled the oil pan to clean out the gunk in the bottom and inspect some of the bearings, no big/bad suprises there seemed decent, some pits in a couple cylinder walls but way down and not where the rings would touch.

Ran into some big problems with the rearend... Got it all painted and everything, and assumed it would be easy to find a set of axles (why I bought the extra rearend), but I soon found out there's two of these style rearends made by Timken. I've got the newer A-150 style out of a '53-'56 F250. The older style is the one most racers actually used, and the kind that I bought to get parts from. Of course, the rearend out of the car is 2" wider, and the splines aren't the same either. Now I'm not too sure what to do... Been looking and asking all the guys I know about axles, but haven't turned up a thing yet. I could always mount up the spare rearend I bought if worse comes to worse though... Have to see.

Also kind of wondered about the electrical on the car today... Would a regular flathead run fine on 12 volt? I'm guessing the generator wouldn't work, but what about everything else? The electric fuel pump in the back of the car is a 12 volt and was definately being used at the time, and I'm pretty certain this car only had a flathead...

 

Hi Shaun....all this talk and all these 3/4 ton rears got me thinking. Do you have any extra of those taper locks that go into the outer flange of the 3/4 axles? I need 16 of them but would love to buy any extra you or anyone posting on your site......my e-mail address is. [email protected]. Thanks

 

Sorry I don't actually.... Still need to get some for my own axle actually haha. I'm guessing your aware already, but they do make those taper locks new, my Dad has a bag of them outback but they're for his own car. I can get the name off of them if you like though.



Been working on it some more, but been getting kind of frustrated at the same time. When I order a bunch of parts from Mac's a few weeks ago, I clicked the box to notify me if any parts were on backorder. Of course the brake orders were on backorder 6-8 weeks. I didn't really want to wait that long, and so I cancelled them from my order. So then I went and ordered them almost two weeks ago from Honest Charley's. Waited a week, no news, so I e-mailed a guy, who gave me the phone number of another guy to contact. He assured me last Friday they had shipped. Well the showed up today... and guess where they came from?? Mac's. Kind of an annoying run around but at least they're here... Just to show that I've been doing something:







So I'd pretty much have the front brake done, except for the springs. I kept fighting with the new return springs I bought from Mac's and so I went and dug out one of the old ones to compare- the new one is about 1/2" shorter, no wonder it was giving me such a hard time! Then tried to see if the old ones were still OK, bent one and seemed OK, bent the other and it snapped in half... So back to the drawing board on those I guess... Also had the brake drums turned, just have to go and pick them up.

Been trying to work out the rear axle shafts as well... I used one of those snake cameras to count the splines on the pig and it turns out this Timken uses a 16 spline axle instead of a 12 spline like the older model... No wonder the other axles wouldn't fit haha... Been trying to track those down, asked just about everyone I can think of but haven't had any luck. Saw a 1-ton Timken, made the same year(s) as the rear end I've got, but they're a little different and I'm not sure if they'd work... Might end up having to go pull one and find out. Also learned that early Dana 60's have 16 spline axles about the same length, so that might be an option too...

Hopefully the chassis will be back this week so I can get started on that too...

Anyways thanks for reading, hope you guys are enjoying the build!

 

Shaun, it's been a really long time ago, but, I don't think the axles from a dana will fit that old split tail rear. I ran a dana 60 in my old hudson coupe,because I could get 7:17 gears for it. put me one up on all the 6:67 guy's ran, plus brake parts were a lot easier to come by, even back in the 70's.

 

Shaun.... I did find a place to get them.....your local napa store.....listing under a stud and cone set....thanks

 

Hey Shaun, years ago I bought a box full of new Dorman brake return spring packages. If you can give me a measurement of what you need, I will check to see if I have anything that will work. Gene

 

As it turns out I was up in the woods at a junkyard a couple days ago (hadn't checked here first) where the guy mostly has Ford truck out of the 50's and 60's, and of course no 53-56 F250's with the split rear... But he did have a 56 or 57 F250 with the real early Dana 60... I figured it couldn't hurt to try, so I pulled them out and they were in fact 16 spline! I think one axle is a little shorter then probably the original, but they both slipped right in and when I turn the pinion by hand both of them turn so they should work I hope... Glad to cross those off the list for sure, never would have thought they'd be hard to find, but I had to ask at least 10 different guys to track down a set..

Good to know! The key to finding old parts at NAPA is to talk to the right guy there... Either one that's been in the parts business for year, messed around with alot of old cars, or will actually take the time to look for you. There's one guy at the local NAPA who used to race back in the day who's real good about helping us... We can bring him a bucket full of parts, and as long as we wire wheel the part numbers he'll find em for us. Today I went in to order parts and the regular guy wasn't working, so I went up to the lady and when I said I needed some brake parts for like a 54 Ford F250 she replied "Oh pads and rotors??" Kinda got a laugh out of that one!

Great, I'll send you a PM!

 

So quite a bit of progress in the past couple days.... Got all 4 brake drums turned down and painted, got a set of axles for the rearend, might have tracked down a transmission.... Oh and I got the frame back!


Kind of looks dumb like this, but it's the best way to weld on the frame rails and such..







Some of the damage....















Started welding some patches...













(Welds look kind of crappy but it was hard not to burn through everywhere, no matter the heat)







I know the patches (and some of the welds) aren't the greatest, but I haven't had much practice lately... And it is after all an almost 80 year old frame, turned into a race car close to 50 years ago, and has been sitting out in the woods for at least the past 30 or so years, so I'm not too worried about having a show car quality frame!

Thanks for lookin!

 

Awesome project! I love those old jalopies.

 

Damn Shaun, you're embarrassing me on the progress of my 'ol Ford!

 

Shaun,
Part of the beauty of these cars was the "rough around the edges" look that came from home innovation, and construction. That's what made them unique!
I love the use of angle to repair the frame rails! Works great, and after paint will look as if it was there forever.
I crew on a modern winged sprint car, and they all look alike. parts are interchangeable, they have no personality. The old race cars reflected the vision of their builders. Mike

 

Keep it up!! John

 

Thanks everyone!

Mike, that's definately the look I'm going after.... Doesn't make sense to have a flawless frame when it's not supposed to be haha

Couldn't agree more about the old cars vs new race cars... Old builders used whatever they could scrounge up in the back yard or the local junkyard (and one old racer told me he used to go to movie theatres and steal driveshafts right out from under car so he could adapt them for his race car!). The level of engineering that went into everything is pretty incredible... As are the stories of how they tried to beat the system! There was one local guy that ran at a track that didn't allow quick change rear ends at the time.... So what'd he do? Well we went and made his own quick change transmission instead! Nowadays its pretty much looking through a catalog and picking what you want haha




Didn't have much time to work on it this weekend, but I did get a few places patched... Some before and afters:





This one I'm not completely happy with, but I've still got some reworking to do..










I've also pretty much made up my mind that I want to put this car on the road.... I'll still keep it as stock as possible, so that it could easily be put back to "as-raced" condition (the side bars are in the way anyways, so the doors will have to remain welded..) but add the items needed to have it inspected as a street rod. I've always wanted to build a decent hot rod, but of course money was always an issue... So far I'm into this car for right around $2,000, that includes the car itself, the engine, all the brake parts, sandblasting, and the steel to patch it. I'm sure I'll have over $3,000 into by the time I'm done, but I've got all the major parts except for the transmission and radiator, plus all the replacement parts (clutch, brake lines, etc). Probably some feel that an old stock car shouldn't be put on the road, but hey why not? This car wasn't a track champion, and to my knowledge never won a feature, so I might as well have some fun, go to some shows/cruises instead of just covering it up in the garage... But I think I've still got a while before I need to worry about all of that stuff!

 

There are several old race cars, both dirt and drag in the DFW area that have been made street legal. I'm sure the owners couldn't care less about what we think, they are too busy having fun with their cars.
Don't build to please others, you will fail every time.
I assume you will title it off the frame?

 

There are a couple old race cars around here that have been made street legal... One is a newer style chassis, but an old sedan body, and the other is true jalopy style car, and I don't think I've heard either of them complaining either haha.

For a street rod in this state (as I'm told) you have to have to trailer it to a special inspection station, or the head DMV office, where they will give you a special street rod serial number. I probably could register it as a plain antique if I had the original VIN tag, but I'd rather have it under a street rod classification anyways I think. Here in NH you have to have the following to pass inspection as a street rod:

Headlights
Taillights
Blinkers
Powererd windshield wiper (not sure how I'm going to do the windshield yet..)
Seat belts (even though your not required to wear them in NH..)
And if the vehicle has a flat tire, nothing is allowed to touch the ground

Shouldn't be too hard to accomplish with all of the wiring kits and such for sale nowadays, but still plenty of time to plan ahead for that!


Did talk to a guy whos really into vintage racing... After I talked to him last week he went and visited the guy who built or helped build the group of cars that this was in, but it was actually called the "Sidewinders Club". They were all pretty similar, and were painted yellow, and looking at the body on my car you can see where it was originally yellow and then painted over with some red poorly. Hopefully I'll be able to find a couple pictures, because a few guys have said they've seen them where the club of cars are all lined up next to each other.

Also looked at the radiator situation the other night... I was hoping I could use the radiator that came out of the F6, but it's too narrow and tall... I was hoping to cut down the front "grill" section a little... But this radiator is about 3 or 4 inches above that even. I asked the same guy about radiators back then, and he said Lincoln radiators were real popular with racers, and from what I've read are about 27" wide, which is almost exactly how wide the frame cutout was made.... But I'm guessing finding an original Lincoln radiator (or maybe one out of an F7 or F8?) would be a real (and expensive) task...

 

Today's progress.... Still need to do (alot) of grinding:


Used a plasma cutter for the first real time to cut out the rotten section (outer frame rail first)..







Then I cut out the inner frame rail section (doesn't look as bad, but it was paper thing and pitted awful)



Just kinda went around and tacked in the inner frame rail section, when I flip the frame over I'll be able to weld around it better plus I didn't want the outer frame rail patch to hit on the welds



And then the outer section... I heated up the bottom section and hammered it down to give it a more factory curve to it

 

Shaun,
Looks like you're doing a great job. I'm happy to see you saving that car. Gotta get to work some more on mine.
Tom

 

Thanks for the encouragement! Definately gotta take it in stages.... If you try to bull into it too much, you'll just end up getting sick of it after a little while and end up discouraged too.


Got the rear drum brakes all done today, just have to put the two halves together and that part of the project is done. Also just have to put one more spring on a front brake and then those can go back together. I want it so when I'm done welding/grinding and eventually painting, I can roll out the front end and rear end, bolt them in, and then I've got a nice rolling chassis. Then it'll look like I've really got something! <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
__________________

 

Still peckin away at it....









Welded in a new inner frame patch as well.. But I guess I forgot to take pictures of it!





Tipped back over...





Originally they only welded one side of the gussets for the cage, which is certainly strong enough but I decided what the heck, might as well finish the other side..



Swiss cheese anyone?



Ended up sitting in the car for the first time yesterday, man the guy who drove must have been pretty short haha! Will have to move the seat back further, and also going to have to do some reworking on the radiator support, not sure on the plan there yet, but definately going to be cut down quite a bit. Trying to figure out what to do about the actual radiator as well.... I got measurements from an F7/F8 radiator and it doesn't sound anywhere close to what I need, so I guess maybe a Lincoln radiator is quite a bit different. Really doesn't matter what radiator I put in though. And some guys have told me you can add the extra water necks to any old radiator? Anyone here try that or have it done? Also might have found a transmission, guy is supposed to deliver it next week if all goes well.

 

Guy that drove my '56 was pretty small too, my forehead is right on the top support bar of the cage....gotta' post up some photos of the interior.