1951 Nash Rambler Build Thread

I enjoyed seeing the pictures of the flathead six. Just sold a '58 Rambler 195.6 flathead last week. It was an amazingly simple engine. And a stroke of 4.25 inch! Still have the three speed and aluminum bell housing.

 

So the original color was cream, but they painted the whole car red, even the engine bay! Our 60 Rambler was factoory red. How does the ball stick shift work?

 

Very cool car! Jeepsters had similar wipers.

 

Cool Build. Very nice Quality work. VOODOO likes.

VR&C.

 

Another update? Finally!!!

I'm not going to lie it was nice to take a step back from the project and work on something else (our flathead dragster)

But it's time to get working!

Needing a remote oil filter I wasn't ready to spend the kind of money people are getting for them, but I also didn't want a modern screw in type either.

So today at the Long Beach Vintage swap meet (mainly antiques, collectables, not much car stuff) I stumbled upon this!

In the original box comes with ALL the paperwork all the fittings, the rubber hose, even the service sticker!...

For $10!



Let's get to work!

 

Cool, I have one of those sitting on the shelf.

 

Started the wiring.

Got a 12v regulator for 5 bucks.



I also had to add spacers under the engine mounts. The crank pulley was dragging. Also the engine wasn't sitting level so I leveled it out.



Now comes the little problem I'm having. I went to turn the engine over by hand and half revolution it locked up. Then backwards it locked up.

Just to make sure it wasn't the valves I pulled the head.





Good news it's not the valves... Bad news I don't know what it is. Hopefully something hitting the flywheel like a bolt...

 

When you rotate the engine are the pistons coming above the top of the block? They shouldn't...

Those engine mounts don't look anything like the ones in the 53 TSM. They are either home made units or aftermarket (my bet is on home made). 58-63 mounts are a bit different. I'm not sure they would bolt to your crossmember, though a 58-63 crossmember should bolt in place of yours. Nothing wrong with the mounts you have now as long as they work. The way they are made they would have to have the spacers you put in.

 

You know I didnt check when the head was off. But I talked to our machinist who built the engine and he said it turned over fine when he assembled it.

When I turned the engine over with the head off it was doing the same thing also.

The engine mounts came with the car... They do seem weird though. If I have any more problems I'm going to make my own.

 

Got the oil cleaner in.

Not much room left in the engine compartment it's getting tight!!!

View attachment 1433397

 

I had the same problem with a o/t 4 cyl,seems the bolts for a standard flywheel are longer than those used with a flexplate (DUH !) the longer bolts were hitting a casting web on the back of block.swapped bolts all was good

 

That's probably what's wrong. I should of turned the engine over when I put the flywheel on...

Lesson learned.

 

I don't have the greatest shots but I got all the oil lines hooked up.

I even used all the NOS fittings that came in the box! That made it easy!

I hooked up the oil pressure sender unit as low as I could to keep it away from the exhaust

 

I dunno how I missed this but it's wicked cool!

 

Thanks!

 

You didn't really need the T, but nothing wrong with using it. See that "hump" along the side of the engine that the oil sending unit (and your T) taps into? That's the main oil galley for the engine. There are a couple plugs along it -- any one can be used for the oil filter or sending unit. Where is the return line from the filter connected to the block?

Rather than make you own mounts, buy a pair for a 58-63 American. Then you can modify the crossmember to accept them. Or see if someone has a front crossmember from a 58-63 American -- it should bolt right in. The only mode to the crossmember would by the angled supports under the mounts. Those might have to be changed to accept the later mounts, which are flat discs about 3" in diameter and 1" thick, with two mounting ears on the bottom and a single stud on top.

 

All i can say is WOW!!!! Well done mate.

 

The return line goes to the other side of the block right near the generator. Is that the right place?

 

Yep, that's the factory return fitting. Just wondered if you used it or made another.

 

I may stray away from traditional for a moment, but what would I need to do to adapt a T-5 tranny to the Nash?

I have a buddy that adapts them to flathead v8, and its as simple as an adapter plate.

I keep feeling this tranny is going to hold me back. What do you guys think? Or what would be the best tranny to use?

 

I'd go for it! Modern Driveline might be able to make such an adapter. They sell one for the early Falcon six that is close. I talked with them about this possibility in August 2010 (still have the e-mails). They sell the Falcon adapter for $189.95. If they can sell a Rambler adapter for the same price I think it would be good. It could be made to fit early and late bells (there was a change in the location of the lower holes for cars with three point mounts). I just measured the two bells I have and sent them the measurements to see if they are close enough for them to work with. Will let you know what they say. In the mean time, the bell is 6-1/2" deep and the crank sits 5/8" inside the bell. The pilot bushing is roughly another 1/2" deep, so the input shaft can be roughly 7" past the bell mounting surface. The bearing retainer hole is 4-1/2" in diameter measured with a tape -- which probably isn't good enough to use, you'll have to measure yours. The bolt pattern is the same for early and late bells for the top two holes, which are 6-1/4" center to center (c-c). The bottom two are the same distance apart. The pattern is symmetrical in a rectangle. From top to bottom, c-c, the early holes are 4-1/4" apart, late 5-3/8" apart. If your buddy makes an adapter it needs all six holes to work with early and late models.

Since the input shaft needs to be 6.5" to 7" long not including the adapter, the 7.41" or 7.85" input shaft T-5 would need to be used. 85-91 2.3L models used the 7.41" input (could use a 0.50" thick adapter), 94+ V-8 and V-6 models used a 7.85" input shaft (0.90" thick adapter). V-6 T-5s will handle 265 ft/lb of torque, I-4 models 240 ft/lbs. Both of those are easier to find and cheaper than V-8 models, and plenty strong for the AMC/Rambler sixes.

I-4 models have a 3.97:1 first gear, V-6 and V-8 7.85" input models a 3.35:1 first. OD is 0.79:1 for the fours, 0.73 for the V-6, and 0.68 for the V-8s. The 61 American (earliest Rambler TSM with gear ratios for the trans) had a 2.605:1 first gear. That's one reason they used a 3:31 rear axle or steeper -- OD models used a 3.78 or 4.11. The smaller motors (like your 172.6) used a 3.78 w/standard trans and 4.40 with OD. With OD (4.40 axle) that's a a total gear reduction of 11.46:1. With a V-6 T-5 (3.35 first) total reduction is 12.66:1 with standard rear axle (3.78). Reduction is a granny low 15:1 with 3.78 rear and 3.97 1st (I-4 1st). First might not be usable, but then you still have a great four speed trans just using 2-5 that's much better than the T-96 no matter how you slice it. Of course you could mix and match parts and use the 2.95:1 first gear of an 83-84 V-8 T-5... maybe. The input shaft on those was only a bit over 7" -- no room for an adapter. I don't know if you could extend the pilot bushing out more than 1/4" from the crank flange without interfering with the clutch, but you might be able to.

The only problem will be keeping the bench seat. The Ford T-5 shifter will be right in the middle of the seat -- between buckets. The S-10 output shaft housing can be adapted (see http://www.inliners.org/Jack/T5tech.html), it moves the shifter quite a bit forward. An AMC T-5 output housing and shifter can be used, but good luck finding a 2WD version - they are rather rare.

Chevy V-8 T-5s have a much shorter input shaft -- only 6-7/8". The 85+ S-10 four/V-6 (not the 4.3L, it uses V-8 trans) input is 7-3/16" -- about the same as the early Ford V-8 (7.18"). An adapter could be made, but it would be a bit thin. That trans also uses a low first gear. You can easily find Ford T-5 info, but the GM info is all but impossible to find!

 

WOW! Thanks for the info! I am really thinking of going forward on this. Anything would be better than the stock tranny..

 

That's the truth! The T-96 is about at its limit with the bigger 195.6 OHV - it will take a little more, but not much. Was used in the early 70s (70-72) in Gremlins behind a 232, but that version had a slightly larger input shaft and bearing. Even then it was just big enough. That was 135 hp/215 ft-lbs. So that's about as much as you'd want to put in front of one, and then only one synchro. I told Modern Driveline as much -- they should get a few customers for the adapter if they make it. Or if your guy can make one and sell it for $200 or less.

 

Alright... So again just throwing out ideas but what would it take to hook up a powerglide?

We've done it with a flathead v8. It was as basic as an adapter plate, and spacing the torque converter correctly. Would it be the same with the nash? There's no attached bell housing I would have to worry about either. Hmm.

Not sure what route I should go. I am going to be driving the car a lot. And doing commutes to Los Angeles for work so an automatic would be nice. But I am also going to take it to the track at the Antique Nationals.

What would be the best tranny to obtain the best power from the engine that would be the cheapest way of doing it also??

What would you guys do?

 

There is no adapter for an automatic. I'd use any 63-71 Borg Warner auto from an AMC with a six. The aluminum case BW autos aren't known for strength, but they have plenty for the six -- even your turbo model. The only guy I know with a six and BW auto who thought he might be stressing it had a 258 with a turbo on it in a Gremlin. The L-head won't be a problem though. 57-62 models used the cast iron BW trans and are definitely stronger, but heavy too. Before 57 AMC used the Dual Range Hydramatic. That's not the TH models, but the old four speed cast iron monster -- heavier than the BW iron models (that's where the Powerglide came from -- half a Dual Range).

I have had contact from Modern Driveline. They just need a bell housing and the measurement of the depth of the crank from the bell mounting surface to the end of the crank to make an adapter for a T-5. I don't think they make auto trans adapters. We tried to get Advance Adapters interested in making a GM or Chrysler to pre 72 AMC six adapter, but they are mainly into 4x4 conversions and weren't interested. Maybe that's changed... contact them and see. Any adapter they make will work behind all 63-71 AMC sixes. Pre 63 models have a different crank with an extended pilot ("volcano" end crank) at least for auto equipped cars. Stick shifts may have a flat crank flange -- I've heard of them both ways. Forget which yours has. That "volcano" may interfere with a flex plate adapter.

 

Hay, love your 51, I saw your projeck and got a Edmunds head for my 51 stationwagon. the rest well be stock but with two carter YF, the three speed with the free wheelling overdrive is wild. I have tryed to see the linkage to the carbs in your picturs but can't. flatheads forever

 

Thanks! We haven't done the linkage yet. It's been slow the last month or so...

 

So far the build is perfect! Please don't put an automatic trans in it.

 

I'm not. As of right now I am keeping the 3 speed.

 

I just found this thread....weird 'n cool...just like I like them. I'd walk over 3 plastic Deuces to check out this Rambler. Dare to be different!