History Bonneville Record Car / NEED HELP!

a while back a few manual trans57-64 chrys were discussed in old cars weekly .. one found in wisc. it was a vert too

good luck

 

From the Oct '59 HRM article on Norm's '59 Dodge:

It appears that for '59 at least, a 459ci NA and a 370ci blown engine were both B-class setups. For Bonneville anyway... not sure about El Mirage.

 

Unless the 444 was so close to the 439 break off they didn't think it would be caught. If they did have Chrysler behind them could they get away with a little more.... I have really enjoyed this thread!! What a car!!

 

Wow!!! Awesome find Josh! Thanks for sharing all this with us. Although I'm jealous as hell, I'm glad someone got this car that really appreciates it's history. Please keep the updates coming!

 

Danny (@Gotgas) -

This wouldn't be the first time that I was completely wrong (especially with respect to SCTA rules & classifications of the past) ... which was exactly the reason that I made the caveat: "I'm about 90% positive they were the same back in 1958".

I was just re-reading the Nov '58 HRM and the Dec '58 R&C coverage of the 1958 Bonneville Nats ... and noticed that the Herda~Hartelt Streamliner (with a blown Chrysler HEMI) wore entry # "999 E" and that the Chet Herbert Streamliner (with 3 Chevy "Corvette" engines) wore entry # "333 ES"... which totally disproves my theory that the "E" in the "252 E" on Norm's 300D designated that the car was entered in the SCTA's "E. PRODUCTION CATEGORY".

 

Right now I don't feel much like looking for some old rule books, but I have a 1983 here and at that time B was 373 to 488 inches. A being anything over 488. you got bumped 2 classes for having a blower So a "C" engine (306 to 372 inches) with a blower would run in "A". Blown engines above 372 were not allowed. Superchargers were not allowed in Production class in '83. About '94 or so the rules were changed to the current class breaks

 

Thats a pretty sweet ride! Got to get it back out on the salt!

 

What an amazing car and an incredible survival! Hard to imagine a more desirable combination of rarity and original condition; just astounding.

Given how you're approaching your ownership of the car like a careful curator or steward of preservation it certainly seems to have been passed to the right hands once again. Good luck in your search for additional info and in the future as you get it running and perhaps back out to Bonneville and El Mirage.

Sometime in the mid-'80s (IIRC) I was lucky to be at the New Hope (PA.) Auto Show to see a "Parade (metallic) Green" '57 300 ragtop that happened to be an original manual shift car with a more-radical-than-stock, solid lifter 392. Man, did that thing sound great! Seemed a little crazy for a car that looked like it should be driven by a blonde 1950s trophy wife to sound like a road-racing Allard J2X! Don't remember what the story was on the car and I've never seen it again. Maybe one the Chrysler 300 experts out there might remember that one.

 

Thats cool man you deffinitly have to get her back in the salt

 

Neat find! I'm glad it found a new owner like you, someone who is interested in its past and preserving it for the future!

Didn't I sell you a '49 Merc a couple years back? Do you still have it?

 

Allright. It's a bright new day and I am reminded that in 1958 and for some years after the class sizes went the other way from today. "A" would have been the smallest engines and "E" the largest. As such Norm Thatcher, from Van Nuys set the E/Gas coupe record at 156.387 runing the 444 cubic inch Chrysler unblown. Small blue car seen on the left was a highboy at the time and set the C/Roadster record at 181.773 running a blown 258 inch Dodge on fuel.

 

Well there you have it! ... proof positive that I was 100% wrong about the SCTA engine classes being the same in 1958 as they are today ... and I should have known better 'cuz I have a collection of (1987 & newer) SCTA rule books and old magazines with "Bonneville Results" from 1957, 1958, & 1959:

1957 Bonneville Results


1958 Bonneville Results



1959 Bonneville Results​

So ... now that I have beat that dead horse to death , I think I'll just let an expert (e.g., Jim Miller) answer the El Mirage "DX" question.

@Hyfire - Sorry for taking your thread off on a tangent

 

Speaking of Norm Thatcher and LSR race results here are a few scans. I don't know exactly where these came from, found them on ForwardLook.

Josh, I hope you post something over there... he's not an unknown to those folks.

Unfortunately, still coming up empty for 1958. Dang!

Looks like B Gas Sedan was 372-488ci in 1959. Also appears the big blown Dodge didn't fare very well for Norm that year, with 154.9 and third in class.

 

Danny (@Gotgas) -

The "1959-results.jpg" & "1959-results-.jpg" images are pics of pages 78 & 79 of the November 1959 issue of Hot Rod Magazine ... and are the same pages I scanned and included in post #86.

The "norm1.jpg" & "norm2.jpg" images are pics of pages 88 & 89 of the November 1961 issue of HRM.

The "normt.jpg" image is a pic of pages 44 & 45 of the December 1961 issue of Speed & Custom magazine.

 

One of the best original finds I've seen on HAMB. Wonderful car with true, exceptional ,racing provenance. Please keep updates coming as they develop...............Mike

 

Josh - stoked for you mate. Been off the HAMB for a while and so nice to come back and see you with this. Well done mate!

 

Mac Hullett. He's one of the three guys standing over the blown Hemi from pg1, along with Bill LaRoy and Norm himself.

 

That is the height of coolness.

The last three old cars I've bought have all been original paint, low mileage, survivor cars and I've sort of gotten spoiled and have now resolved to only own that type of car.

This however, takes that sort of thing to the next level. It's stunning dude....truly stunning.

 

Any chance the 59 Plymouth was Hilborn injected?

 

That would be awesome. My Hilborn was made in 1959 and is a CH331-8 (Hemi) but had a few modifications done by Hilborn before delivery to set it up for a "318 Plymouth."

Would be cool if there was some relation...

 

Bill's 59 Plymouth was covered in the November 1959 issue of Hot Rod magazine and according to that article Bill was running Scott injectors on a Weiand Drag Star log manifold.

 

This thread is exactly what h.a.m.b. is all about! Number one...the cars are still out there....two..there are great people out there with knowledge to share about such cars....and last but not least...it gives us all hope that someday will be "our day" to find such a precious piece of automotive history!...To all who have posted on this thread...I THANK YOU!

 

Weird..I bought one magazine at a flea market yesterday..a November 1959 Hot Rod..and now I see this....

Spike

 

Neat find. Thanks for sharing and good luck getting it running. Can't wait to hear the custom
exhaust. Can't believe it hasn't been driven in all this time. CRAZY!

Great information, I was wondering why he didn't blow the 444.

 

Wow, just noticed this thread! First I want to say that to me the ultimate cars ever are the 1957 Imperial Crown 2dHT , the 1957 Chrysler 300C 2dHT and the 1960 Chrysler 300F 2dHT. But a real deal Norm Thatcher 300D? Wow. Love those Forward Look cars he raced back then and of course Andy Granatelli's twin Paxton 300F! I don't know what to say other than that I am very happy that this car has apparently landed in the right hands. I sure thank you for sharing all the cool details on this one! Looking forward for more!

Almost 20 years ago I was in Texas looking at a basket case 300C and the guy had what I remember a 300D stick also...but I guess it must have been a 300C???? I have to try to find the photos...the stick was $8000, a lot of money back then but I couldn't even raise the $1750 for the roller 300C...oh how times have changed.

I'll attach a pic of 70 year old Norm Thatcher wrenching on a Dodge D100 in 1967.

 

Hello, Jim LaRoy here, Bill's son. I haven't much time to play today, I have to get ready for dyno runs tomorrow.

Last I knew, Doug Lovegrove was in Las Vegas. He might not remember me fondly. The last time I saw him was at Bonneville in the 60's, he turned to my Dad and said, "LaRoy, get your son outta here before I kill him."

 

LOL, that is really cool, love all the detective work you are doing! Keep up the good work!

Hans

 

@Hyfire - So when can we expect our T-Shirts to arrive?

 

Josh, the latest updates are really great.

I have one new thing to add. I just found that my Feb '65 HRM has a full 2-page article on Norm's '64 Plymouth Bonneville car, powered by a blown and injected 465" 426 Hemi. In fact, it goes into detail about how Craig Breedlove and Al Sharp built him a one-off blower manifold for his engine because there were none that existed at that time! How cool is that.

Also interesting is that the car weighed 5180lbs because "Norm wanted the car to reduce its tendency to get light at high speeds and lose some of its driving and steering traction." That's a big change from the tune he was singing when he abandoned the 300-D for the lighter Dodge!

Anyway it also gives some names of his 1964 crew members, thought you might want to add them to your list. Skeet High, Doug Lovegrove, Gene Cadenhead, and William Balduff.

 

Agreed that car had to be covered taped and vacuumed sealed then suspended from the rafters!