The elusive 224/3.7 MerCruiser banger

Looked at throttle cables today in the junkyard and found that the only ones to fit my linkage were from gmc in the early 90's. I got a cable from a suburban and other from a pickup [$2 each].
I began reworking them and suggest adding a compression spring around the cable between the end of the cable sheath and the throttle linkage. In any case as the cables were just raw material to cut and try in getting setup, get a longer one.

 

I strongly feel that the 9/16" headbolts do the gaskets no favours at all.

Picture this: 9/16" bolt stretches maybe say, 3 or 4 thou at most? The heating cooling cycles crush the gasket a couple thou, and you've lost almost all (clamping pressure being non linear) your hold-to-together force.

Even a modern Cummins uses 12mm headbolts- which are almost exactly 7.5/16th's ie 15/32", halfway between 7/16 & 1/2". These stretch more, and give you a more "forgiving" connection.
There is a reason most all modern all-aluminum motors use small bolts torqued so hard the head bolts are supposed to be one use only. That's what works best.

The Ford head had 9/16" holes and Ford wasn't going to make them special with smaller holes, and I think it's fair to say doweling and very undersize bolts is a risky idea. IMO Mercury missed the opportunity to build stepped washers and use a size or "size & half" smaller studs. Such stepped washers do exist for putting windsor heads on 302's, but that's at a size down- going 1/2" down to 7/16".

I wonder how hard it would be for a good electronics guy to come up with a voltage regulator using more modern parts. I confess the adding of the belt seems necessary but I really wish I didn't have to.

 

Personally I think that the Mercruiser Engineers did a pretty good Job except for the 2 afore mentioned areas of the alternator and the water pump.

In a boat the cast iron head should and did work fine when properly maintained and opperated.

The only area that I intend to change is the head to aluminum and the rocker arms to aluminum rollers.

This way I am only changing the original engineering in ways that should improve the performance and reliability of the engine.

If I decide that I want to risk reliability for performance I will probably go to a mild turbo.

My compression ratio should remain at the original 8.8 to 1 with the 95cc aluminum head allowing for 5 or 6 lbs of boost that will bring the engine up to about 300 hp.

The first car that I will finish will be the Model A Speedster at about 1,600 lbs, 1,800 lbs with me in the car.

Thats 6 lbs per hp with me in the car.

Un turbo charged it should put out about 230 hp for a ratio of 7.777 lbs per hp.

That should be fast enough for me.

With the 5 speed T5 overdrive and the small primaries of the Quadrajet should get good milage If I can keep my foot out of it.

Thats a joke, who thinks I will keep my foot out of it.
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No need I used an old generator and its regulator and it is great, aside from being heavy. It however, looks old as it is supposed to.

One might grind most of the headbolts center section down with a toolpost grinder then polish and perhaps shotpeen the area. The bolts do not do a lot of locating of the head. There are two hollow dowels for location of the head. Be sure to get ones long enough. Figuring the right torque should not be hard.

Some Volvo regulators were outside the alternator I've used them instead of the Delco internal regulator.
They may work for your purpose. It would at least be a good starting place. You'd need a schematic of each regulator and of each alternator to be sure the wires get connected properly.

 

some part numbers that I used:

throwout bearing: Precision 0326J3 MADE IN CHINA
clutch release fork: ADS1301 GM MADE IN USA
throttle cable: ATP Y-618 .......MADE IN USA
air cleaner element: FRAM CA3588 MADE [somewhere]


I usually buy 3 parts when looking for 1 & return the ones that don't fit.

This will save you from having to do that.

 

Here's some pictures of my '34 Plymouth project, currently it has a stock 470 engine with custom 4-2-1 headers, motor mounts use 3.8L V6 Ford rubber parts because they're soft. 5sp. Trans is from a 90's full size Chevy pickup, I used it because the shifter comes thru the same hole in the floor as stock and it bolted to the engine. This trans uses a hydraulic cylinder to disengage the clutch. I used a 10.5" Mustang pressure plate by redrilling the flywheel. The rear end is an 8.8 unit from a Ranger pickup shortened to use another stock short axle, disc brakes are from 80's T bird. The engine pictures are a work in progress, I stroked the crank .300 and the bore is 4.500 to yield 264 cu.in.The cyl head is of Tom Roberts design for a 500 in. pro-stock drag engine. Life's foibles have kept me from working on it but since following this thread I have drug the parts into the light and made a list of tasks to finish it. If this is of interest to anyone I'll post my progress. Pat

 

Had trouble sending pictures so I had to split it up, Pat

 

Pat,

Are you kidding. Of course we want to see your progress.

I am going the easy, safe way with my first engine.

But you are letting it all hang out.
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Here are 2 of the pictures edited to lighten them up a little.
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My oh my. Really nice Pat.
The hydraulic clutch is a good idea, it has some advantages:
1. easier to set up.
2. does not transmit vibration to the car frame.

I chose V6 mounts for the same reason.

send in a picture of your car in sunlight.
What is it like with the stock motor?

 

Pat,

Did the transmission input shaft length have to be delt with or was it ok out of the box so to speek?

What bellhousing did you use of is it part of the transmission?

How did you handle the throwout bearing?

And do you have a part number or a year/make on the motor mount?

Thanks, Dick

 

Dick, I'll do some searching of drawings that I made and also I'll take photo of the throwout bearing, so be patient I'll try to get that info this evening. Pat

 

I'm thinking to get that bore you must have done new sleeves.
Did you completely mill out the existing sleeves including all the aluminum around them, or did you put new sleeves inside the remaining aluminum casting?



Those are heads are size huge by large, aren't they? Do you really feel you'll be able to get the volume of air moving in 'em to do the velocity they are designed around? I'm worried using the Kasse street Boss replicas, that I'm killing bottom end for no gain. That said, is this a race car?

 

Is that one of those new BOSS '9 heads!?!?! What ever it is it's sweet! More pics and more info please.

 

This is a question to all who are working on 470 projects.

How are you handling the thermostat installation.

I think that I will short couple one at the back of the head where the water return to the radiator comes out of the head thru the intake manifold flange.

I invision installing one in a couple of original thermostat housings bolted butt to butt.

Here are a couple of pictures of one of the housings with a 3/4" reducer inserted to match the nipple comming out of the head water return.

The other housing will run an appropriate size hose to the top of the radiator.

Any other suggestions will be appreciated.

Dick

 

I ran a Mercruiser 488 housing back to back with a Chevy housing. The only thermostat recess will be in Mercruiser housing. Cosworth Vega housing keeps the 1-1/4" hose size. Bolt spacing is close but a slight filing needed.

 

Nope, the Boss9 by Jon Kaase Racing Engines (JKRE) is a reproduction of the original Ford head. John & his people have cast it with some port reshaping along the lines of his porting jobs already there in the casting, and the exhaust rocker arm is lengthened and moved inward (on a V8) so the pivot is closer to the centerline of the head. The big reason for this is that the pushrod on an original Boss 429 leans out so far that it runs into the valley of the block. On a Ford 460 block you can grind it out to clear (though it gets "really" thin (approx .100")- but for us Mercruiser guys, you'd have to grind out the wall completely in 4 spots and rebuild it with weldment closer to the cylinder. That welded area would have to seal against the headgasket, and would have to separate coolant @ 15+psi from the lifter gallery. I *think* the Kaase pushrod realigment will prevent us from having to do that. As you might guess I'm just waiting for the stars to align and I will be getting a Kaase head for my Mercruiser build.

As to Pat's engine's heads- where do I start.
There are two sanctioning bodies for mainstream drag racing- NHRA & the "upstart" IHRA.
About 10 years ago NHRA gave in to some GM lobbying and created a blatantly anti Ford rule- the Ford 460 has wider spaced bores (4.90") than the BBC (4.84"). So NHRA said "you cannot use an engine with bore spacing larger than 4.84" in ProStock". So, the Ford racers had no choice to to go to IHRA, which has much looser regulations (they permit up to 5.3" bore centers). Under the IHRA rules, engines grew to 815-825cid. That was where the Roberts design Hemi heads like Pats really came into use. They may have been around in other forms, but that's where they are mainly sold & used. These new design heads have no real relationship to Ford, except that they still bolt on the 460 Block and they carry a Ford Oval so Ford can be seen particpating in racing. I'm not sure if or how, or what directon money goes between the design/foundry & Ford advertising.
Between the above rule and the ubrupt cancellation of Prostock Truck, I think NHRA are about the worst people in racing, not to mention the utterly corrupt game they have with "certification" of racing components through their SFI Foundation.
Anyway, you can read betweeen the lines of my reply- I'm not sure putting a head designed for 825 cid (call it 412/bank) revving to close to 8,000rpm, on a ~265cid motor most often revving to 6K or under, is going to give the best results. Even if you build the shortblock to very aggressive race specs with plans to rev to the moon, it's still maybe a bit of a mismatch, IMO. The ports on the Roberts head are raised several inches (itself good) and start off around 5.5 square inches in area, unported (compare the intake port to the oil filter pad to see just how big they are!). They're a clean sheet new design for some pretty extreme race engines, and have nothing in common with the Boss429 street/drag/Nascar head of the 69-71 era. For example the Boss street heads including Kaase's & Shotgunhemiparts.com's reproductions, use valves that are not exactly opposite each other, creating significant swirl, whereas the Roberts design are more like a Top Fuel head, where the valves are directly opposite each other. OE's have normally avoided that over the last 25 years, because the intake charge has a tendency to blow through out the exhaust. That maybe OK for racing if the overlap and header and everything are matched, but leaves them a lot less forgiving of bad combinations.

 

I'm running with no thermostat and a close watch on the temp gauge. It worked ok last year as my radiator is small [18 x 20]. I expect it to be marginal if this motor puts out the heat I expect it to.

I have a Sirocco radiator that I may use in series with the other one.

I've some fittings to run an inline thermostat when the time comes for that.

 

I'm not ready to post answers to some of your questions or comments, finding everything I wanted has to be prepared in a form the rest of you will understand & appreciate. Sometimes record keeping doesn't get the attention it deserves. As an aside: my shop machined the last production of Alan Roots Hemi heads as well as the Tom Roberts design. At that time the Tom Roberts head came in 3 different valve & port sizes, the head pictures that I posted have the small ports which they later discontinued. Many of those heads went on off shore boats as well as tractor pulls. I do have some of the Alan Root heads with smaller ports than the Tom Roberts. Yes I'm aware that the block needs to be relieved for the push rod, In my case it's not a problem as I use a deck plate to seal off the coolant and provide a seal for the flanged liners. If I was going to build a strictly street engine it would use a Kaase version of the stock head. My car is to be driven on the street as well as the Antique National Drags. Having a spare near stock engine is my insurance for lack of velocity in the ports. If any of you are interested in the factory manual for this engine I could try to make it available on line. I was asked earlier how the car ran with the 470, well on the 1st time out it broke the Plymouth rear end, since then I got a Ranger rearend and started to adapt T-Bird disc brakes to it and it is waiting for me to finish customers projects before I can devote time to it. Reminds me of those Buzzards sitting in a tree, one said to the other " Patience Hell! I'm gonna kill something!" More soon, Pat ( Here's some pictures of that other 4CYL)

 

Some pictures of the chamber side of the head, Pat

 

I love your car Pat.

I am building several 470s for my Model A Fords.

The 2 below are streached 6" on the Brookville roadster and 8" on the closed cab Independent Technologies.

I may even put one in the Woodie on my Avatar.

They will all be Street Rods designed to look as stock as possible and be safe, reliable drivers.

Early Fords are my favorite cars of all time.

In my opinion they make the best Hot Rods, after all thats where most of this stuff started. Model Ts to early 30s.

But any car modified for performance is a hot rod of sorts.

Dick

 

I'm going to try a sample CAD picture to see if it comes out readable, Pat

 

well that didn't work, I'll have to wait till Jason comes over, he's my webmaster. I have a drawing of the adapter I made to bolt to the flywheel to position the pilot bearing to the rear to engage the trans shaft. I also disassembled the clutch hub and turned it around and re riveted it back together, this moved the splined hub to the rear also. The release bearing hub is 2.25" long and uses a clip, the id on the bearing is: "JA NTN SF0815"
I can't remember what it was from. The 3.8 V6 motor mounts were from either
a T-BIRD or COUGAR from the 80's. I have a 2001 3.8 V6 Mustang that has a sturdier looking but larger mount approx. 4-4.5" square, it is an odd fire engine and the mounts dampen the vibration real well at idle. Pat

 

what is a approx weight on the motor with aluminum head and stripped down but enough to run?
I have a wild idea to use one in a aluminum jon boat with a jet drive to run shallow water.

 

One thing that rarely fails, is to use the Windows "print screen" key on the top right of the keyboard, and then right click and paste into Microsoft Paint, and crop and save

 

Thanks iadr, I'll try it tomorrow, time to quit. I'm old enough that everything is new again. Pat

 

The block with the main caps weighs 99lbs,The original starter 21lbs, The high torque starter 9lbs, the crank 66lbs, the aluminum head 30lbs.

I think we are up to 207lbs with the delco starter and 195lbs with the High Torque starter.

Tomarrow I will try to weigh the pushrods rocker arms, the oil pump, cam, cam gears and chain, valve cover, oil pan, front cover, an extermal water pump, and the other hardware necessary to run this engine.

It will be interesting to get a more accurate weight than the 300lb estimate that I picked out of a hat.

Remember the bellhousing is Chevrolet pattern.

Dick

 

How much length on the hull?
I'm daydreaming of an inboard with a more or less conventional prop in a tunnel [like I saw on a jet ski].
You'd give away some performance for the Berkley pump. Would an axial flow setup possibly be more efficient? With this motor, that would not matter so much as you have power to spend.

 

This boat thing is getting out of hand.

How do you expect that a boat engine that is stripped down and modified to run in a car can ever be modified to run in a boat.

 

I would be running a boat engine in a car and a car engine in a boat
That way it all balances

 

Well OK dennis, I guess that balances it out.

I decided the easiest way to get a weight on a 470 set up for a car was to weigh one without a head, then add in the head, the push rods and rockers, the valve cover, the flywheel the intake, the carb, the starter motor, the exhaust manifold and misc. nuts and bolts.

The total came to a whopping 343lbs including the cast iron exhaust manifold and steel rockers.

In the interest of this comparison I will use 350lbs and 230hp out of 224 ci-in at 4800 rpm.

A stock 1954 Chrysler 331 ci-in put out 235hp at 4400 rpm but weighed 710 lbs.

Thats a 107 ci-in bigger engine that weighed over twice as much.

The point is that at 10 to 1 weight to hp ratio that is equal to 31 additional hp in one of our cars.

For a total equivelent of 261hp.

I will admit that I picked the heavy but anemic stock 54 Chrysler 331 for my comparison.

Even the 55 chrysler only had 250 hp at 4600 rpm and 300 hp at 5200 rpm for the Chrysler 300 with 2 4 barrel carbs at 735 lbs.

I know that these are stock hp ratings for my comparison, but the engine that I am building is stock other than the aluminum head and roller rocker arms.

There are two things to consider when looking at my comparisons.

One is that a lot of technology was developed between 1954-55 and 1976 when the Mercruiser/Ford engine was developed and between 1976 and 2000+ when the performance 460 aluminum heads were made.

There is one more thing to keep in mind and that is that I picked the data for the comparison.

Abe Lincoln said "There are lies, damned lies and statistics"

The statistics are accurate but the slant is all mine.

Still these are some of the things that made me select the 470 Mercruiser engine for my Model A Fords.

Another thing that is neat is that when someone looks under the hood they don't see big V8 valve covers, but only a carburated 4 cylinder over head valve pushrod engine with very little plumbing.

Remember that a Model A Ford engine weighs 475 lbs.

Dick
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