The key to building a successful hotrod is good design skills with enough engineering and hands-on knowledge to make it safe and dependable.
An engineer who wears a pinkie ring is essentially a moron who feels his crap doesn't stink. There are however good engineers who are down to earth regular guys who view the whole pinkie ring thing for what it is...GAY
If the hot rod shop builds them out of a catalog.......no, an engineer is not necessary. If the hot rod shop builds innovative, unique, thinking out-of-the-box kind of cars then a good hands on engineer would be an asset. Posted by a BSME, registered Professional Engineer, 35 years as an engineer who has been building his own cars for 45 years and doing all of his own work (except upholstery).
Why don't you make an actual point or contribute something worthy to the discussion? Pointing out grammar errors is last line of defense when someone has nothing else to go on. Better yet, post some pictures of cars you've built. That will shut me up.
I think this is probably the most ignorrant statements made on this thread. If that were in fact the case, how did we get to the moon? And don't try to tell me that old bullshit that it was all done on a Hollywood Sound Stage. I just recently retired as a Mechanical Engineering followed by 5 years teaching Physical Science. My conclusion is that there are a never ending supply of idiots that purporte themselves to be experts and gurus in all walks of life, the truth is that a very small percentage actually know what they are doing. Poor designs, failures and any number of anomolies are a result of poorly written specs provided by the customer, or design by committee. Remember that a camel is a horse designed by a committee. In all of my years as an engineer, I tried to design with repair in mind. That came from working on cars long before I became an engineering student. As for the original quistion "Should we have Engineers in Hot Rod shops?", I think it would be an excellent idea. Many top drivers are engineers, Bobby Rahal for one. I am sure that his contributions have helped greatly. I generally find that those that bash Engineers or any other educated individual do so simply because it is beyond their ability to attain the same credentials.
Answer = no. Although it would be helpful to have an engineer in cases where strength and safety are involved (chassis, etc). The huge majority of hot rod shops do not have an engineer on staff. Shops that build race cars, at least the bigger ones in the major motorsports, do have engineers on staff, however. If you want to work in a hot rod shop, you're better off getting different training than going to school for an engineering degree. If you want to be an engineer doing engineering things, you're likely better of working somewhere other than a hot rod shop. You know who's really incompetent? Those fellas over in the procurement department. What a bunch of morons! Always sourcing the wrong parts from sh!tty suppliers...
I know one shop that employs an a engineer, but that dude is barely making enough to eat. If you have the wherewithal and drive to complete an engineering degree, there are probably better (>$) places for you to work.
It always struck me, that folks were happy to ask Squirrel re: tech or OEM designed hardware. And his answers were spot-on. Occupation? One guess. More than a few of us here, survived the gamut and came out partially sane. Full recovery meant getting back into the shop and building something!
I recently finished reading Ford Racing History and it states Ford Sr. didn't trust engineers and he did not employee anywhere near the number other automakers were. So to keep the flathead V8 project a secret he promoted many people off the assembly lines to head up new departments, such as ignition and casting. Bet you didn't know the V8 distributor was designed and developed by a man that was detailing a dash panel for the tri-motor plane project he had no engineering back ground what so ever! And the man that created the patterns for V8 block was a Russian imigrant that was sweeping the floors. Henry admired his work ethic and promoted him to the foundry. Yes these guys were overseen by, as I recall by 1 engineer, but they were left to their own vises to create the actual product. No wonder that diver bell distributor isn't like anything else and that damn block we love so much cracks like crazy. I'm an automotive engineer myself and also the son of an aeronautical eng. I think as long as your a hot rod/ car guy or someone that likes to tinker more then draw you won't ever fall into the it can't be done trap. I've spent my entire career working for race teams and the professional race cars built in the day surely had engineers assigned to them as we do today how else do you think those old pushrod rods just keep getting faster, more efficient and safer.
After a lifetime of building cars (23 years of such with the benefit of a mechanical engineering degree) I have come to the conclusion that one of the best attributes one can have is a healthy respect for what you don't know. Arrogance from either Technicians or Engineers is pretty ignorant. Consider an SR71. http://gizmodo.com/5511236/the-thrill-of-flying-the-sr+71-blackbird Do you think something that cool happens without engineers and techs keeping each other honest and sharing a beer too? I'd rather have it done the best way, rather than my way. Anyway - good luck finding a rod shop that will pay you engineering money. It would be rare to find one that could afford it, much less know how to leverage that knowledge. You are better off getting a job that allows you to hone your engineering chops at their expense and use the bread you earn to perfect your craft at the car buildin'. When you are ready, pull the pin and start your own shop that leverages all that stuff you learned at your employer's expense. You can then build better cars that leverage your degree, CAD, CNC, etc. At least that is what I did...
IF ... you consider a NASCAR Sprint Cup race car a HOT ROD Then you need engineers. Most of the sucessful NASCAR teams have many degreed engineers on their staff.
Well, its kinda like when we go hunting...we try to blend in so as to not be noticed right away, and then some fool asks a question that actually requires more than a 15 word answer. Just remember, doctors, lawyers, engineers, hell, even cooks and bottle washers...someone had to fill the spots in the 'bottom 10%' of their classes...so try not to paint everyone with the same brush. .
you must have the same people ordering parts that we have. "I can't buy from them, but I can buy from this other vendor for a 25% markup?!?!?!" WTF!
As someone who actually work in a shop, I can't really anyone getting hired due to the fact that they have a degree. Wouldn't hurt for sure but for the most part no one is actually sitting down and engineering anthing on any given day. Most of what goes on is basically repetition. Most employers are looking to see if you've "done this before" so as to lessen to cost of having to train someone, degree or not. Are you going to make average engineers salary on a rod shop? No. Not unless you luck into a one in a million shop that manufactures parts and needs someone just like you. Then you might make average salary for the engineering degree that you want. Personally, I think that if you really want the degree and to work in the industry, you'll have to find your own niche business and make the most of that.
You talk funny Dave, and you can stop defending yourself, we were having fun. At your expense of course
A true professional requires professional liability insurance. Doctors? check Lawyers? check Licensed Engineers? check Face it, us engineers are part of the upper echelon.
Ok guys, All I have to say is wow because when I left for work this morning we had 2 pages and I come home and all hell has broken loose! I appreciate all the input good or bad, but I really can't believe how hateful everyone is being towards engineers. Its not the fact that hotrods are hard to build, its the simple fact that all I did was ask a ? about if there was a need? I haven't really figured it out! lol I have figured out though that the word engineer is about as bad as the R word!
Do you need an engineer in a Hot Rod shop ? Probably not. For the same reason you do not need a brain surgeon to apply a band aid to a sore finger. I am an electronic engineer, definitely of the hands on variety, and I can identify with both sides of this rather animated discussion. There are some things that a graduate mechanical engineer may be able to really help you with, such as from scratch suspension design, or designing efficient structure. But as has already been said, traditional Hot Rods are by their nature very basic and simple vehicles, and there is very little actual real "engineering" to do.
I guess I dont see any small (or large) shop paying real "Mech Engineer" wages unfortunately.... Most people in the industry do it for the LOVE of the job, not the money.... I am a hands-on guy myself, and after graduating almost 11 years ago, I fought the notion that one could no longer "work their way up" in the working world anymore. I was a journeyman millwright, went in the army, then was paralyzed by a drunken idiot (assuming drunken, never stopped) while on my motorcycle.... SO, it kinda changed my outlook. WHen I graduated here were your options: 1. School (always hated school, actually enjoy it a bit now) 2. The big 3 (you could still make a killing back then) 3. The skilled trades (see number 2) 4. Military WELL, 2 of the above are no longer profitable (in michigan at least), and I cant be in the military anymore cuz I cant walk. SO, that brings me back to square 1. School. I really never liked school, but I finally figured out what I should be doing about 2 years ago. Engineering. I, like you, see shit that is ass-backwards and could be made so much more user-friendly... I feel that I will make a damn good engineer, as I actually KNOW how to take things apart, and put them back together, and understand how things work. Too many engineers, dont even know what the item they are designing is supposed to do......"Book smarts" can only get you so far....... I love all things mechanical. So if I cant work on them hands-on effectively and quickly, (from a business standpoint) I can at least design the stuff, decide what its made out of, what machines are used to produce it, how many people, how to setup the assembly line, etc..... Finishing up my associates in Manufacturing engineering, and transferring to Lawrence Tech next semester for M/E...... Wish me luck! I suck at math, and will need lots of help, but I WILL get it done! Ramble/off James
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