I've since hung it on the garage wall....to keep my wife from running over it with the vacuum cleaner. JH
Neal: Don't get me wrong, your frame loooks good and the mods done would seem to certianly help make it drive well. Judging by the crossmember work, are you going to be putting in 4 or 5 speed trans.? Graft an old stick to it and it looks right at home. Does it make the car go down the road better than old Ford stuff, absolutely. My point is this. I respect everyone's opinion and right to do what they want with their car. Personally, I've had a change in my opinion as of late. My buddy built a '39 4 door convertible for his father. The car just looks right. As traditional a car as you would find astetically. The car has IFS, 9" rear w/ discs, flathead with electric fan & AOD trans., hidden A/C, leather gut. Dropped dead gorgeous. Does the car look right? Absolutely! Is it "trad.", no way. I can't say I'd agree that the owner doesn't care about being trad. Maybe they don't have the skills to torch and bend spindle arms or the money or track down a "real" dropped axle. That's all I'm saying. Different strokes, different folks.
Banjo...I'm not saying that you HAVE to use original parts. And yes I am using a T-5, but it is not a "visual" part of the car. If I was starting over right now, the car would have a 38 Lincoln Zephyr trans and a closed drive line. I shouldn't have posted the chassis pic, as it takes away from the intent of this post. My two points were: 1. Original dropped axles can be more asthetically pleasing than aftermarket axles. 2. Don't tell me something is period PERFECT when it is an obvious aftermarket part (i.e. Not an exact reproduction). That's it. Cool? Neal
Neal: Got it. Absolutely cool. I really meant it about your frame work. It looks awesome. Did you make a web to mount that panard bar on the rear wish bones or something else. Trying to see from the pictures. Really like that idea. Good choice with the T5. Maybe I just have cranky pants on today.
There is so much flex in the axle from the perch hole to the spindle on side steer applications, that the "chassis engineering" style with the tapered slot seems like a smart reinforcement solution. Kinda like I-beam triangulation. In that sense I don't mind it but I like curves... Knowing the strength of the real FORD steel axles, I wouldn't put anything else in a side steer front end, dropped or not. (try turning the wheel of any non-moving car with sidesteer, and you can see the flex on the spindle area.) TP Neal your a madman I'm glad I know you! that picture needs to be postersize on my door! Maybe take some more pics with it lying on a black silk sheet or tigerskin rug, carporn!
Great post, I thought I was the only idiot that was stopping to stare at dropped axles at car shows and in posts of car shows with pictures. Man I was beginning to think I needed to take a break from old cars because I was meticulously critiquing the way axles were dropped, etc.
I was trapped into going to San Diego for a wedding a couple years back; spent a substantial part of the free time I had trying to track down the site of "Axle" Stewart's speed shop from a 1952 ad...do I need to take a break?? And I'm an early period Mordrop fan, not even a "Dago" axle collector...
Here is mine. It's just part of the look in my opinion. MorDrop wide beam, '32-34 bones, F-100 brakes, F-1 shock brackets, Corvair cross steer.
Kevin, this is the most UN-surprising response I've ever read! HA Honestly, I can understand the gennie-fondness but rarely do I see an old dropped axle that looks as good as most aftermarket deals. Typically, they look like an extrusion gone horribly wrong, like from a Play-doh fun factory. As far as aftermarkets being too thick or heavy looking at the perches(?), I look at it the other way around, the axle is thinner from end to end and beefed up at the bosses, which gives a more refined look to Henry's old axle. I like a nice OG dropped axle, but even at it's best it has a funk to it as opposed to say a SB or Magnum with it's more graceful curves. Another thing. I think what creates definite opinions on axle preference is when you came around. I don't want to speak for SamI.Yam., but I think we both grew up around the time when PnJ's and SuperBell and many of the first aftermarket companies were starting out, we have a different mentality than the newest generation of rodders who seem to think gennie parts are the ONLY way to go. You could easily get into that age old discussion about old parts having soul and new parts with no soul. I think there is a hell of a lot of soul in the parts made by hot rodders FOR hot rodders. The latest generation of true blue hot rod lovers probably get most of their inspiration from the very roots of rodding (books, magazines etc.), which is way cool, but my generation is a wee little bit older and while we appreciate the roots, a lot of us are inspired by the rodding we saw first hand in the mid 70's into the early 80's. It's all personal preference and your own experiences I suppose....
Neat post, I'm more interested because I recently aquired a dropped axle for my model A project. I'd sure like to tap the minds of the guys on this thread as to a guess of the year of the axle and the type of brakes that are on it. Any thoughts? You'll never belive me on where it came from!
Yes, you are probably right. I am not sure how old you are, but I will be 40 on Wednesday. I did grow up through the 70's and 80's street rod scene, but I guess my experience was a little different. One thing that I just thought of was my dad's influence. You see, he graduated HS in 1955 and gave up the car thing for college, work and family...but not in his mind. He was/is still stuck in 1955. When he got back into cars in the early 70's (when my brothers and I were kids), all we heard about were flatheads, Mor-Drop axles, Zephyr gears, Fenton cast iron headers, etc. We started scouring the swapmeets for these old parts, for his projects and our someday projects. The P&J, Superbell, Deuce Factory, etc stuff was neat to look at in the magazines, but out of our swapmeet budget. I guess it is still the same for me. It IS all based on perspective... Neal
Id say you have a 33-36 ford axle, with 37-41 ford spindles, with 41-48 backing plates and 46-48 drums?? jeff
the year of the axle and the type of brakes that are on it. Any thoughts? You'll never belive me on where it came from! '46-48 brakes...'33-6 axle? What is distance between perches? Trailer? Cement mixer? Sticking out of the mountain at the edge of the salt flats?
funny thing is, to me...I feel exactly the same way in reverse... I often joke with people that "I was gonna build my whole car out of old junk, but it cost too much...so, I just bought newer improved stuff, and saved some money" ! I use what I have, what is feasable for me, sometimes what I trust will be safer (like new spindles...) but...I have my set of lines that I just won't cross either...its weird the things that will bother us, and then the other things that won't? I am not a purist, though...at all...but, some things just don't look right to me...I don't mind catalog parts, old parts...I like the overall look of a car, or I just don't...I just like decent taste....
The distance between the holes is 37.5" The story behind this axle is this, my buddy Buckle had a model T project which was mainly a cowl, a turtle deck and a T frame. No front axle. We went to an "old hot rodder" friend to ask if he had or knew of an axle for it. He proceded to take us into the woods behind his house, and after rummaging in a what appeared to be a pile of junk pulled this beauty out of it, along with a set of unsplit bones. The T project stalled and was sold off, this axle and wishbone however weren't we traded some bits and now I plan on using them on my model a, and keeping them within the circle. Thanks for the ID, it's been a while since we got them and I wasn't sure of the vintage. Oh and the price, well, guess
good to see i'm not the only one, but i'm a little weird in that i don't really like the looks of the heavy 32's as much once they're dropped filling the ends helps but for some reason i prefer the regular 32-36 axles if it's going to be dropped. and yes i have the same axle collecting problem as the rest of you hopefully i'll be able to put them all to good use eventually.
The play-doh look comes from people who either don't know or don't care how to do it correctly. It results from not heating the axle ends evenly prior to dropping. There are plenty of examples of what the original axles can and should look like if dropped properly, with nice even bends and consistent thickness through the ends. I don't think the aftermarket axles look anywhere as nice as a well-done original. And of course, aside from CE, there's the safety issue as well.
Thank you for the response to my questions regarding 32 dropped axle, round back spindles, and unsplit wishbone. Where do you get the Torrington bearings and do you have to ream the spindles to insert them? What have you done to reduce the friction when using the early spindles without load bearing bearings when turning wheels and standing still. When using the early spindles, how do you make certain the arms are not heated too much when they are bent? Thank you Jack
Jack - The main reason I used the 32-34 spindles, was for the integral upper steering arm. Kinda like axles, I like bending up old Ford parts. These use the standard king pin bushings...the Torrington bearings are the thrust bearings, which are used below the axle just like the larger bearing on a 37-48 spindle. Because the Torrington is so thin, it can be used between the spindle and the axle (the axle may need to be ground down ever so slightly). As far as heating and bending the spindle arms, it is like heating and bending anything, you just want a dull red heat and slow, steady bending. Orange or yellow is way too hot. If you are uncomfortable doing this, find someone who is and then have the spindles magna-fluxed to check for cracks. Good luck. Neal
I would disagree with ya' Kevin... I think we are more alike than you want to admit! When I made that statement... I was feeling a little facetious. But I do stand behind what I think and feel... and that is: Aesthetically, the aftermarket axles look better than the original axles that have been dropped. This opinion does not however take in consideration or have a "historical perspective" rooted in traditional hot rodding. As soon as you take in consideration hot rodding, and its rich history... all bets are off, my opinion changes, and what is "cool" is definately different. I know, I may sound complicated... but I've given this a lot of thought... spent nights lying awake thinking about it... and then, alas... spout off some half-witty statement that gets people all riled up and thinking. What I've been thinking about, and trying to put my finger on, is why we (traditional hot rodders) think so highly of what we think so highly of... and why everything else is "garbage". Traditional Hot Rodders being a curious bunch... all period correct and all... nothing but original shit... you know... Take my '55 for example. No front bumper, cut fender wells... tires sticking out the fenders a bit, dead level stance... People who do not have the "historical perspective" that I have "don't get it". I hear it all the time... it's the friction "traditional hot rodders" have with the rest of the rodding community... and the FRICTION the street rodders have with the RAT RODDERS... and the FRICTION a bunch of guys here among us have with anything that isn't "rat-rod-traditional-ific"... Comical really. When I hear someone say "they just don't get it"... I think to myself "no, YOU just don't get it!". Not you Kevin, or Neal... 'cause you guys really do get it. But my '55 is plain ugly compared to what guys can do with that medium... aesthetically speaking. I was at a car show yesterday... a down-town show with only a handful of traditional hot rods (one) and a couple of rat rods (3)... and this guy comes up and looks my '55 over... after about ten minutes of looking he says "This your car?" "Yep" I answer. He says "It's perfect!" I then asked him where he grew up. The guy was about 60-65 years old... he says "San Leandro"... I said "Well, with American Racing in your neighborhood and Vic Hubbard's just down the road... that car IS perfect, to you. His historical perspective is right on... and growing up in the Nor-Cal area I have a sense of, and have adopted his "historical perspective"... so yea, it IS perfect... to us. You see... as we learn about hot rodding and it's roots... we gain an appreciation for and hone our "historical perspective". It's the reason some guys think that Edsels were the best looking car ever made! Guy probably got his first piece of ass in one... or remembers being picked up from baseball practice in one and goin' down to the burger joint afterwards... it's the sense of nostalgia that is evoked in us all that gets us to liking those things that aren't really right with aesthetics. Some of the parts Ford's designers designed are amazing... a stock '40 Ford axle, a '36 wishbone, the tapered arm on a '39 spindle... or even a torque tube or banjo housing... and even the connecting rods in a flatmotor.... now those parts are downright beautiful if not, works of art! They are... aesthetically pleasing to look at. To me... stretching a stock axle (except for a '32 axle... done right) takes all the hard work that Ford's designers put into it... out of it. A Chassis Engineering axle looks more like something Ford would have made than any of those stretched out axles... But... they DON'T have the soul, the "historical perspective" that a mor-drop, Okie Adams or Dago axle has... or even the soul that one dropped by the two guys here on the HAMB (I bought mine from Steve at Ind. Chassis) Side by side... aesthetically speaking... the old dropped axles look like ass compared to the new ones. And when you take in consideration all that hot rodding has given us... the "historical perspective"... new ones look like ass compared to the old dropped axles. Even if your "historical perspective" comes from books by Don Montgomery and Dean Batchelor... ya still have one! The axles? They each have their place. I have two very special cars that I'm saving parts for... one is an ultra traditional Banger powered '23 T... and the other is a '28 Phaeton. The T has been in the works for a few years. I got a CHERRY body from Gordini... an NOS turtle deck and slanted windshield posts from Mark Morton, a Columbia 2 speed rear from Turlock, a '39 trans from a local rodder, Kelsey Hays wires from my dad... as well as banger speed equipment and a banger motor from him posthumously. Needless to say there is a lot of heart and soul that is going into this car... so much so, I don't think I am yet in the right frame of mind and have yet to acquire the skills to build it properly. So, when it came to "choice of axle"... an original axle that was in my dad's parts pile just had to be used. After seeing the work that Steve's buddy does dropping stock axles... I decided that was the way I wanted to go. So, I sent it off, and had it dropped. The Phaeton isn't going to be a "nut and bolt" car. It's made to be fun... but at the same time, I want instant gratification with it. Okay, not instant... but close to it. I want to be buzzing around town with my boy Nate who is now 9 and my boy Cal who is 6... before they are too big to have fun riding in the back of an old car! Think Jake's tub, only a different color. But when it comes to an axle... I'll follow the hot rodding credo and not the "traditional hot rodders credo... that is, "use what ya got that's cool"... The traditional hot rodders credo is "Use only what they used way back when" Will Neal poo-poo it if it has a Chassis Engineering axle under it? Naw... Neal's not like that. Sam. Axle for the '23 T-Love those distorted letters! And a Magnum for Tim's '40 I have luing around... much better looking... AESTHETICALLY
As usual, Sam, I think you've nailed it. It's all about perception & perception is biased by experience, memories, & background.
Surprised I haven't heard mention of the differences / benefits of the repro cast axles vs the original forged axles. My last rod (1931 no-fender coupe decades ago!) used an IFS, this next one (again, a 31 coupe but w/ fenders) will use an I-beam. Comments re the axles appreciated.
heres the one of my truck done in the late 50,s I believe not sure of the offender This is one part that the origional builder from 1959 said he was not happy with. I believe this one falls into th elooks like ass catagory, but it has its history
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