Lincoln V12 engine needs a car build around it

That make sense to me. Optimize the replacement parts to take advantage of lessons learned over the intervening years.
Lighter weight, strength as needed.
Very few would build a 1940 Ford flathead with cast iron pistons just to be correct.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/steel-pistons-in-a-32-45-ford-flathead-v8.1011464/
Setting your own compression height, skirt length, pin height, pin size and retaining method, rod length and weights if you are going custom made is just getting your money's worth.
Check into balancing to make sure you don't weaken the crank or need mallory metal plugs, or at least know if you do.

 

Those are 90deg/cross-plane crank V8 issues where its all done as sets with bob weightes....no bob weights used/needed to balance these engine. On a straight, straight 6, V/flat 12 the crank is balanced alone, and piston are sets, rods are sets so changing 1 set of pistons or rods for a new set with different weights doesn't change anything meaningful balance wise as long set the rods are a set and all matched weights to each other it's fine.

 

CAD model of the 42up Lincoln rod, but stretched to 7.75" long and small end width cut to match big end.

 

It makes sense to do it that way. Custom rod with improved matching piston, followed by newer tech rings. It might even shed some weight in the process and possibly lighten the crank to balance it out. I can make just about anything from a good blueprint but designing and specifying something like this is out of my league. Should be interesting.

 

You hit the problem with design work kind of right on the head......there are 1000s of choices that will all work fine and that makes picking 1 a problem. If we just made stock replacement but stronger rods, we build our engines, they would run good and we'd be happy. If we stretch the rods and narrow the small end we still build engines and they will still run good and we'll pat ourselves on the back for how much lighter and more stable in the bore the pistons are without having any data to say we actually made a difference but in our hearts we did.....a good design is a series of good choices knowing nothing is ever perfect but trusting each choice was good.

I like to try and focus on what is the problem I'm trying to solve actually is. Here its the rods break, but there is a little more to that.....they break with rpm and if we are going to start porting and boosting then the revs are going up and that brings me to optimize the design for higher rpm....and that means get the pistons light and that means a longer rod. These parts will be good to 9k easy, move on to the next problem.

I'm thinking 6k redline. Some guidance numbers....the crank is the issue. The lincoln cranks are beefier than ford but the standatd piston speed for a cast crank is 37500 so

37500x6/4=6000rpm......that is where I cut off the simulator runs and what I'll be thinking about with valve springs (although flow doesn't really break anything on a flathead ). In my heart and anytime anyone asks me I'll believe 6k is fine ....and then I'll always shift at 3000 because I'm not a complete idiot

 

Talking about design choices and compromises....this is a shared journal V12 so to run smooth the angle must be 60 degrees. The F1 world figured out you can cheat that 5 degrees and not pay any real price so the V8 were 85deg to make them narrower for aero and the V12s 65 deg to give more room for intake systems.

This engine 75 degrees, it will be noticeably rough...well noticeable mostly in the exhaust, 6 cyl engines are smooth so 2 6 cyl engines are also smooth but the pulses don't come evenly. And that will load the drivetrain a bit weirdly, not H-D weird but not great. My guess is they needed room to access the valve train ...or flip that stuff to the outside and use 2 cams and covers and such.....so 75 degree it is. We'll call that personality

 

This one sat in a field for about 20 years before I decorated my yard with it. I think it wants to join in on the discussion.

 

Oh the poor thing!

Have you got a home lined up for your build(s) or a timeline in mind? I really don't want to be doing this engine just yet but the opportunity to divide and concur is tempting.

That probably not good for building could help answer the right porting questions like to relieve the block or not. Conceptually its not different from pop-up pistons and on many builds I've read clearance around the valves in the head add more flow but I just don't know. Your profile says long island which is like 4 hours from Elverson PA .....so not a horrible trip to exchange bits.

 

There's a new post in the regular section, mentioning the Golden Sahara at auction. Looking thru the listings is this. Possible inspiration.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/1151428/2003-delahaye-usa-bugnotti-boattail-speedster/?aa_id=704117-0

 

Wow! That’s a purdy car

 

I’ve got a reasonably oversized garage and enough tooling to make quite a stir. I am in no particular hurry, still tinkering with the Ranchero. This winter I’ll stick the running V12 in my 39 Zephyr just enough so it can move under its own power. After that I’ll start itemizing the core engines.

 

The delahaye stuff is good looking for sure. The low and min-engine nonsense I've gotten stuck on makes the proportions very different and that makes getting a design that looks right a real challenge....which is partly why I shifted to connecting rods as that is something I know I can turn the crank and spit out a solution.

i think my desire to make it small and light is maybe more the issue than the mid-engine. The higher end cars were land yachts, long and sleek.....but I really don't want to build a big car.

Then other things on my mind....I could clean up the cockpit and not need to import a transaxle from Europe if I just make this a paddle shift and use the auto version of the tranaxle....more electronics to sort though I guess. Not a today problem I guess

 

Have you considered making it a one seater? That alone would streamline things quite a bit.

 

Or close set and staggered seats, like in the Berlin Rome Porsche car (and probably a lot of other racers).
Gets the passengers feet out of your way in the footwell.

 

I haven't gotten to worrying about feet or really width, its more the profile I still don't think I love. The old roadster/speedster stuff in front of the cockpit is at least equal or possible double the what's behind the cockpit. I started out reversed that and am now at about equal so its closer. Copilot and chatgpt "fixed" it by selling space from the cockpit....and if I do a removeable steering wheel I could maybe do a bit of that. I did shift the windshield back as far as seemed practical to create a similar visual effect. I started with and I'll get out a tape measure and see about what is really needed cockpit size wise...or the windshield could be on a cowl section that flips up for entry/exit, I could maybe get a few inches that way.

I has started with a very flat grill, then went pretty curved, the last version I flattened back out a bit to pull the hood line more forward.....chatgpt in particular wanted to do more of that and the Dehalaye Bugatti the grill is very flat, in profile at least so maybe more flatter is more better....but also certainly less race car like.

Then wheel base and axle placement. moving the rear axle forward seems to help visually but is wrong performance wise. Same with moving the front axle forward....but I think the next rev will push the whole front everything forward a few inches, maybe back to the 110WB.

So kind of a plane for rev5 shaping up I guess.

 

Take a look at the early Jag XK120 from 1949 or 50. They have a really tight fitting short cockpit. Not sure if there are safety issues involved in copying that, being as how this was well before they worried about such trivialities as getting impaled to death by the steering column, or bouncing your face off the dash/windshield.

 

Followed your Ferrari build & now the V12. Surprised all the fancy body styles you thinking of following - & you said in fiberglass. Afraid u planning a 10 year build. I will mention 3 body styles I believe fit the flathead V12 which I think it important to show off. The V12 will always need a plexiglass cover to show it. First the famous “blower Bentley” with the blower out the radiator. U could put smaller ones along the side to help cool. Body a 2 seat roadster & cycle fenders to block road apples. Second fancy low body, rear engine, maybe easier to build body - 1970 Porsche 908/3. Third is theBrian Bass’s “ Bass Kustom” #199 Bonneville roadster ( Ferrari red ). Long, low & clean behind 32 grille. Road apples not that bad with open wheels. U can find pictures of all 3 on the web. My $.02 worth. U still working or home during the week, I got to get over there.

 

I fear I've already been that aggressive. I drew it 28" and the front is curved to look better with the curved windshield....so just under 26" at the side and I'm planning top entry not a door so.....

 

You might be right but its the journey I enjoy anyway so it doesn't matter. Plus the no questions asked budget I agreed with my wife is $250/mon so often buying v making ends up extending the built time. It will cost me $1000-$1500 in material to build a fg body, '32 bodies start around 5k? the delahay type stuff closer to $15k to get started? If I do the transaxles I'm talking about its like $1500+ shipping from europe so $2k? = 8mons budget? Blowers are more, unless I use something I can grab used. If I can have the eng/trans ready for under $10k (40mons) I'll be doing pretty great! $10k for the whole rest of the car and I can finish in 8years?....so yeah, its going to take a while unless something unexpected changes the math. I look at this a lot like an addiction I have mostly under control......

 

@mk e I say this with reverence for your drive and skills.
I mean no disrespect for other members who are recovering.

But

That's a day drinker who is in denial!

 

One day at a time

 

Got it - we all have some kind of budget. I Have looked at the common corrugated plastic signs ( u can get them 30 x 24) & considered them as a light base for fg built car, or at least pieces. Must be some where to get large pieces. 4 by 8 would be nice. Seems all flat sections in Porsche 908/3. Would be easyier build

 

back to rods. The first place to actually give me a quote doesn't really do design so I need to model up what I want. I grabbed a junk frankenferrari rod.....quite different from the lincoln

 

https://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories/connect-the-rods-i-beam-and-h-beam-connecting-rods-explained/
Says H for lightness, I for strength, especially under boost.
Do all the rod big ends face the same direction (different sides of the V push on different sides of the rod) or do they have them all push on the rods the same?

 

I've always seen the H beam rods a amazing....I remember seeing them as a kid in car magazines but yeah, it turns out plain old I beam are usually better. On this build I'm pretty sure it just doesn't matter...stock they are holding 10hp so old B&S lawnmower performance, and if my 400hp dreams come true it will be 33hp, less than a stock anything on the road these days. The long stroke mean the piston speeds will get pretty high I guess.

The big ends face opposite directions iirc....yeah, looking the 2 sides of the big end are slighting different, rod to rod vs rod to crank