Hey guys, I am trying to rebuild my 8ba on an incredibly tight budget and time frame. I tried asking this question in a certain flathead facebook group and suddenly remembered that most of those people's answers to anything on these old cars is to just aimlessly throw money at it. Anyways as I was saying I am rebuilding an 8ba flathead that was in very good shape to begin with. I would like to reuse the lifters to save money, time, and the headache of trying to pull these valves again. The issue I have ran into is that in all of my infinite wisdom when I removed the lifters the 1st time I had put them in a box in order then did not label what side of the box was the front or the back. So I guess my question is has anybody else done a down and dirty rebuild on these engines before and not necessarily put the lifters back in the engine in order and had success? My father's telling me it'll probably be fine considering these engines don't exactly have much valve pressure. I just want to be sure. Worst case I'll ask the same question here that I asked on Facebook (you all seem a lot smarter than the facebook keyboard engine builders). What does everyone here like for lifters. I don't want to just buy the cheapest shit parts I can for this engine if I can avoid it. I looked at the speedway Johnson ones but idk I hear good and bad things about speedway. Thanks in advance
It’s a gamble but maybe less of a gamble than new ones of questionable origin. You can never be sure. I had the same concern years ago when a old time flathead racer assembled an 8RT for me. like your dad, he said flatheads do not have the same stress that OHV engine has and re using cams and lifters should be no problem. The engine ran great. I know of those groups........ 20k to overhaul an 8BA??!!! It is a risk but... What’s not a risk with these old engines?
If they are stock lifters, I don't see a problem. People will tell you that they need to stay with the same cam lobe and there is probably a little truth in that. Putting a lifter on a different cam lobe is no worse than putting a new lifter on an old cam lobe. I'd just check the bottom of the lifter and see that it is in good shape. All lifters I've dealt with need to be slightly convex on the bottom.
There are a few places that you can send your lifters to to have the contact area refaced. I'm at a lost as exactly who at the moment.
If you find someone with a mag base surface grinder and knows how to use it and the tappets have slight ware they can be resurfaced and not go thru the heat treat hardening…
Egge resurfaces em Probably most cam re grinders do Back in the day we didn’t really worry which lifter went where. I’ve seen used lifters used many times. Even home resurfacing of sorts. I replaced a set on a cam with a couple hundred miles on it. No issues.
My logic with how I am rebuilding this engine (just putting new bearings and valve guides in it) is that if it were 1957 and this were my grain truck that I need back in operation for harvest season in a few weeks this is exactly how I would be doing it. I am 24, I don't have 5-10k to sink into just an engine, especially for something that is just a toy. I am lucky enough to be able to own something with an 8ba in it at my age as is. of course if I were to say that in those groups I get told I am a hack and that I shouldn't be working on cars lol.
Sure. You can reuse them. Many have done it. Clean them and maybe have them resurfaced. If you get them resurfaced it won't matter where you install them. New lifters are not that expensive.
Carefully examine the lifter faces and cam lobes for any signs of 'abnormal' wear. If has even wear patterns, go for it! Resurfacing is an option, but if the resurfacer takes too much, you might lose surface hardness. New lifters can be a crapshoot now days. Listen to your Dad....Mix-and-match has been successfully done on these engines since day one...just do it and sleep well. Good luck.
The 8ba in my '39 has a cam that may or may not be a Merc cam. No markings but it came with a bunch of other Merc parts I bought for the bell housing. The machinist who built the short block said it was in much better shape than the cam originally in the 8ba so I used it. The lifters are used Johnson adjustable's I bought from the widow of a buddy that pasted. Engine runs just fine. It's your choice but I say just do it.
I work in the auto trades daily, I'm a Bodyman by profession now, one of my best friends is a mechanic. it seems like all new parts are junk, so no real shock to me that you say new parts might be junk as is. I am glad I asked this forum before going and spending money willy nilly, I'm going to reuse my lifters and hope for the best. Everything in this engine is in surprisingly good shape. I guess I lucked out. Thank you again all.
If I am mistaken, someone will correct me. My understanding is a “new” or used very little lifter has a slight crown built in2 the lifter because it is the “crown” or raised area in the center of the lifter that makes the lifter “rotate”. If the lifters in question have a concave(depression in the center showing a wear pattern) they can be rejuvenated with the proper machine by starting at the edge of the lifter and “building a new crown” or raised area to make them as new. I used to buy used lifters and had them resurfaced at a local machine shop to use again. If the threads are not good on the “stud” that raises or lowers the overall height,sometimes u can put the offending “stud” in a vise and tighten the vise to the point that it actually “damages the threads” bringing back the interference fit they are supposed to have when they are new. If that fails,carefully set the required clearance between the lifter and the valve and disassemble the valve train in such a way that the clearance does NOT change and thoroughly coat the offending threads and reassemble the lifter after removing from the block and measuring with a dial caliper(after removing from the block) to where u can duplicate the exact thickness of the lifter after it has set up using the Loctite and return it to the “hole” from which it came.Note these 2 cams are exactly the same lift(stock) but the cam on the right has more duration while still maintains the exact same lift as the stocker on the left—-had only .300 lift but ran very strong.
We don't normally take job work, but to help a Hamber, we'd regrind them for you for $5 each plus shipping. PM me if interested. jack vines
Surely,there is a shop on the east coast that can resurface the lifters in question. You will lose a few thousands of the lifter where the operator has to recreate the “crown” which will be taller than the outer edge of the lifter where the machine starts its cut which obviously has to be cut deeper on the edge for the “raised crown” to be the tallest portion of the lifter causing it to rotate. Also, a Flathead cam generally shows very little or no wear as the valve springs areNOT near as heavy duty as an overhead valve engine because a Flathead has NO rocker arms or pushrods as part of the valve train, therefore making less force on the lobe and the lifter. Flatheads Forever for 60 years but have graduated to 4 cam Lincoln(not hamb approved) in less than 10 days time.
After re-reading your post, I misunderstood your original request and are actually “interested” in reusing the original lifters.Racers in earlier times have refurbished their original style lifters by silver soldering a flat washer with no hole in it to recoupe what is “lost” in the machining process on the camshaft end. This is a lengthy process because the refurbished lifter has to be refitted and clearance between the lifter and valve noted to achieve the proper(what clearance you choose to run)spacing between valve and modified lifter. This involves numerous adjustments to the overall length by fitting and measuring and altering(maybe put in lathe works) the completed product which means taking apart and putting back together the altered lifter until the “desired” clearance is achieved which is very time consuming. Granted, the original style lifters are much lighter than the adjustable lifters——another method that can be used is raising or lowering the seat to achieve a clearance u are trying to get to, but is not the desirable way to go.Lots of work that is why most rodders just go to adjustable lifters to avoid the hassle of fitting and refitting over and over. It is hard to use few words to explain this lengthy process because much work is involved many times to achieve the clearance u choose.
Grinding valves used to be a standard procedure to really tune up a flathead. Why you had to grind valve stems? 1st the seat was cleaned up in the block. When the seats were cleaned up, (lapped for a simple overhaul, ground and lapped for a extensive overhaul) this lowers the valve on the lifter. The valve stem was ground to shorten it to the factory spec “ lash”. This is how the valves are adjusted on a flathead. It’s simple but tedious and very labor intensive. Once they are set, they are set and will not need further adjustments until the seats and valve wear away which could be quite a long time. Now it’s a skill not many have, hence adjustable lifters. Unfortunately the quality of adjustable lifters has gone down in recent years. Really, ground stock valves are superior but it takes some skill and time. If you goof up and take too much off the valve stem, you have to grind the seat deeper. There is a limit in how far you can go until you need a new seat or a new valve. Vintage tractor vendors have valve grind supplies and kits for flathead tractors like the N series. These should work or at least be a great help with a flathead V8. Get into the books and online and research grinding valves. This has to be done to have a good running flathead V8,
And, just a few years ago, I wad able to get a NOS set of 8BA "pushrods" (that's what Ford called 'em) from Southside Obsolete. They're a lot lighter than the currently available adjustables.
"Flat Tappets" are not supposed to be flat. The ends only look flat, supposed to be a very large radius.
And use GOOD break in oil. Modern oil has way less Zinc than it used to, because of emissions. Breaking in flat tappets can be a crap shoot.
I'm glad you asked or someday I would need to ask myself. I thought it would be ok .... I was not positive. I have a good engine, because of the way it was parked it will need a couple different lifters. I seriously was considering to just get 3 good used lifters and install them in place of the bad ones.
Re-use them if you want to. It can only cost you a new camshaft. Without knowing which lobe they came off of, it's a crapshoot and not something I would do. The original non adjustable lifters were hollow and very light. To properly adjust the clearance you needed a special fixture and the tools that went with it. This fixture attached to your valve grinding machine and had the means to grind the ends of the valve stems accurately. Called a "butting off" gauge. That shortened a good valve job to less than a week.
I’d accept this offer if I were you. Sounds like you’re just trying to freshen up a tired engine. Totally doable. Have you ever compression tested this engine? Is it a smoker? It’s ok to reuse parts but some stuff just needs to be done so it’s not a wasted effort. I’ve successfully refreshed engines the last one was an 8ba. If it’s tired you probably should ball hone the cylinders and re-ring it. If there’s a ridge at the top of the cylinder you’ll need to use a ridge cutter to remove it. Otherwise your nice new piston rings will get screwed up. These tools aren’t too expensive. When changing the valve guides don’t forget the rubber seals on the intake side. Any questions feel free to message me. I have experience with beating the dog shit out of flatheads and building them both the expensive way and cheap way. My current engine has comp lifters in it. My last engine had isky adjustable. I liked them both but the comp lifters are capable of adjusting to a shorter overall height which I needed with my current engine.
Lmao if you owned the car I think you did at pinetree then I definitely know you ain't lying about beating the dogshit out of these engines. The whole engine is in surprisingly good shape, wish I got it as a runner now that I'm redoing it, feel like it wouldve saved me a ton of time and money. I didn't put rings in it, there's no real ridge In the engine, or at least not one I'm worried about. Hopefully it doesn't burn oil. If It does it is what it is I'll worry about it when I get there.
You shouldn’t have to use any “break in oil” —-why because the flathead valve springs don’t exert 125-150-175 pounds of pressure on the seat. If using stock valve springs,u can probably raise them off the seats using hand pressure—50-60-70 lbs pressure. I have built and run 15-20-25 flatheads for others and myself including my 150 dynoed h.p. 32 cabriolet that ran 80 in the 1/8—-not saying it is a “bad” idea but not necessarily necessary. U may chose to use some additive on the initial start up, but I don’t believe it is necessary to continue the practice. I also don’t believe the stock partial flow filter is worth an “damn” and have never run any filter at all. Never wiped out any lifters,cam, or obliterated an engine, however, OIL is cheap and MOTORS aren’t ,so I changed OIL quite often—-often less than 1,000 miles. I have “spun” many engines to 5,200 —5,500 with NO problems. Others may disagree, but I know what worked for me!!!
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