Technical Fabricator Rates?

There is a Custom/Hot Rod/Restorer in this little Southern community that can compete with most anyone in the country. I am trying to help him get established. What is the hourly labor rate for fabricators. Hope this isn't a NoNo question for HAMBERs.
Jack

 

60-100 per hour for a legit shop
45 ish for a back yard guy
Or trade labor for parts if its me

 

He is a back yard guy, has a new big shop behind his house. If you get the GoodGuys Gazette, this guy did the Fab work on 50 Chevy Pick Up on page 80. At the time he was working at L&S Customs.

 

I think it needs to go to ,,,what does it take for him to live on .
I’m certain he is very good ,,,but you kind of have to get established,,before making prime money .
$100 an hour sounds quite high for an unknown commodity .
Although,,,,it all goes back to the customer,,,,,if the folks feel you are worth it,,,,start at the upper end .
This is a word of mouth profession really,,,,reputation goes a long way .

Tommy

 

Back yard is relative. Can still be legit and be in the back yard.
He’s gonna have to base it off his overhead and investment./equipment.
If he charges the sane rate as the well know shops, folks will probably pay to have the big name on their ride.

 

It can also be a bit geographical. You said "little Southern community". It can sometimes be hard in a smaller town to charge the big city rates.
The formula is the same though. TALENT + EXPERIENCE + REPUTATION = EARNING CAPABILITY

 

You have to start on the first rung of a ladder to get to the top.

 

This guy has a pretty good reputation for his quality of work. He has worked in body shops and couple local hot rod shops. Does not like to work on new stuff, only restorations and hot rods. Unfortunately is getting a bad rap for the time it takes to finish a project. He needs to have a boss. He is a down to earth reliable and honest person. Has wife and 4 kids, never drank, never smoked. Check out some of his work in the GoodGuys Sept Gazette, 50 Chevy pick up page 80.

 

Timeline on completion date also applies to the happiness of the customer .
Is it a bad rap,,,,,or a deserved rap,,,,,there are exceptions to the rule .

From reading your last post,,,,you sound a little concerned yourself about his ability to get the job done .
Top money requires getting the job done on time as well .

I wish him well in his new business,,,,sounds like a good guy .

Tommy

 

You are spot on. I need some work done on my Desoto hotrod, but I am totally inpatient, so I am taking some where that does good work in a timely manner. I am just getting some basic body work done.
I was thinking about trying to hook him up with the guy that does my technical mechanic work. The mechanic wants to get into working mostly on old stuff. Thinking the mechanic could contract his Fab work to the Fab guy, but set dead lines before charging him back if not completed on agreed time. Just sounds like a win win deal for everyone, including the customer

 

I wish him well.
He needs to establish his own business. “Fab” could mean anything. By “fab”, I take it that he does not do finish paint and body?
He needs establish himself whether it be trailer repair, plow points and bush hogs.....

 

I have been at it for 45 years, it can be tough to meet deadlines, nearly drove me to drink ! Depending on the market and demand, $75.00 to $125.00.

 

it's a lot easier to take in a new job, than to finish the ones you already have.

and that's what really pisses off customers

 

From working for a successful back yard guy, do good work and charge a little less than others, when you get more work than you can handle, raise your rates. This will chase away your worst customers and keep the best. Keep doing this as you get better known.

 

Those who appreciate, and can afford your work stick around.

 

The good part is,,,,these guys that have been doing this 40 years and longer,,,have been through good times and bad times .
They are obviously good at their trade,,,or they would not have lasted .
The top money will come,,,as your reputation builds,,,and your talent .
Some of the most talented guys,,,still can’t do their own gig,,,,,,they have to work for someone else,,,,,lack of discipline,,,,business mind set,,,,it is still a business after all .
A Professional builder is a ,,,hard row to hoe,,,,,it takes a lot ,,,day in and day out .

Tommy

 

He can be the nicest guy in the history of the universe, but if he can't meet the customers needs on time then his venture will never get off the ground. They aren't paying him for his personality and clean living, they are paying to get fabrication work done, on the agreed upon time.

"Always be closing"

 

I have only done a few small outside jobs but always found it tough to set rates. I give what I think are fair price before I start a job and usually get the "I can get it done cheaper at..." but then see/hear the same people paying top dollar for shoddy work and bragging on what a great job and a great deal they got.


Great example-
I am helping a guy with an off topic car he came in my garage the other day leaned on my vintage stock car project and told me how impressed he was with his neighbor who builds demolition derby cars ( My machine shop refers to them as Demolition Dummies) .

 

He better get serious about his timelines for completion if he does start a business or his reputation will end his career before it gets off the ground.
Assuming he does that then he needs to assess what his needs are as a family man and then what the business will require. The shop costs will be utilities, insurance, consumables, shipping and the typical business expenses.
I never had the desire to do it, but if I did I would not price myself too high before I established a reputation. On the other hand he needs enough income to support a family and pay the shop bills, hopefully showing a profit.

 

Another fun thing is how long things take to do, vs. how long you expect them to take, vs. how much you feel comfortable billing for.

I never did make a living at it.

 

Starting out, you have to attract customers. That might mean you have to charge a lower rate just to get the first couple of jobs. He has to look at it as the cost of self-promotion and don't get gloomy over the fact of getting underpaid for his skills and time. From the start tell the first customer the rate is $75-hr (or whatever) but he's willing to bill @ $37.50 if the car owner will show the work-in-progress at a half dozen local-ish car shows. This might mean he has to help with loading, transporting, and setting up with a couple of durable poster-size signs, etc. (Magnetic signs to stick on a car door or wherever don't cost a lot.) He may have to actually pay for a space if the show promoter has rules.
Repeat with the next customer but shave the 'discount' a little more in his favor until he has a solid waiting list. The more exposure (promotion), the quicker he can demand his full rate. Call the local newspaper and see if he can score a write-up. I've seen that done.... it works.

 

I charge around $100 an hour and I'm a backyard guy. Do it on the side for the people that want quality and good service. But I'm not dependent on the $....it just funds all the extra crap I do. It is certainly a quality over quantity concept. If I was cheaper I may not have time for my/kids toys and that would suck!

For a guy starting out I think that 60-80 an hour would be fair. The busier and better you get drives the need to raise your prices which is more of an issue that starting higher.....

 

I have a former employer at a custom shop, and know a painter who are both in court over this right now. Both weren't bright enough to attempt to settle. They will both lose.

I strongly recommend against this business model.

 

One thing I am struggling with this year is not meeting reasonable deadlines. I been having trouble getting parts to complete my chassis. Never had this happen in years past until it started last year, also having difficulty getting the parts for my T5 kits (some parts have been ordered for almost a year) and water pump kits. Seems like almost everyone is having the same problem. Fortunately I have understanding customers. For a new guy parts and supply shortages could be devastating. No matter what your hourly rate is if you can't get the parts it makes things difficult.

 

I used to work selectively on cars for folks. I only charged $40 an hr as it was for something to do. Had way more work than I could do so just picked what I wanted to work on. Most shops were in the $100 range but I don't do it anymore. Still get requests but no more for me other than maybe occasionally wiring a drag car for friends.

 

Asking about what a good shop rate is on an open forum is challenging. It all depends on the cost-of-living, and the cost-of-operation where you are located.

Figure out how to cover 100% of your overhead, and fully pay yourself, with 25% of what you expect you can reasonably bill. Not as much work will come in as you think will, and everything takes longer to complete than you think.

You will always have customers who are late to pay, and will clog your workspace if you don't have a plan for dealing with them.

I stopped working on cars, and now just work on them for fun, and to keep up with old customers. There is not enough work where I am to support it, versus the overhead costs. Now, I just do CNC work. That's all gravy. I still have a day-job.

 

I've had a car in the Goodguys Gazette (a couple times actually), I have a backyard shop, I can fab fairly decent, and I'm a hell of a nice guy. But nobody would ever pay me the rate I'd need to survive, mostly because I am slow as molasses. I think being a good business would require all the pieces to the puzzle. Not just most of them.

 

Supply chain issues are pervasive across all manufacturing.

It took me months to get my valve covers and my AC condenser. It is going to take me 8-weeks to get my pistons. I have no ETA on my connecting rods.

At my shop we are seeing shortages of tooling and more exotic metals. We stock a certain amount, but can only sit on so much.

At the day-job we have several assembly plants shut down due to lack of parts. We are seeing suppliers of R&D evaluation parts ship junk, just to ship something (ProTip: If someone else made it, make sure you QC it before using it).

This could cripple a small business, and fairly quickly.

 

I don’t think $/hr would be a good way to charge in this case.

He might be a great bodyman, fabricator, or whatever, but if he takes twice as long as his competitors to finish a job, or worse yet, has trouble wrapping up a project, he can’t expect to command a high hourly rate.

He should probably be quoting on a per job basis, that way the customer knows up front what a project, or subsection of a project, will cost, and when it will be completed. He may be burned a few times, but that’s part of running your own business.

A competent fabricator should, within reason, be a lot estimate time and materials, and know the approximate daily / monthly / overhead to run his shop, and take it from there.