Technical Cowl Exiting Steering Box Help for Track-Style Build

Does anyone have information about the best new or OEM steering box and column to use on a track-style highboy car (a '30 Model A Roadster in my case) that gets the output shaft to exit high enough on the cowl to clear the radius rod of a '40 Ford front suspension setup? I know a lot of people mount the box on the chassis just forward of the firewall, but I'm looking for info on the output shaft exiting the cowl.

For the last highboy I built nearly twenty years ago, I took the output shaft of a 1963 Nova box (very long), cut off the gear, and spliced the shaft onto a '53 F100 output shaft, welding a tube coupler over it. I shortened the column and shaft and built a bearing cradle on the cowl to support the long output shaft as it exited the body. It was an involved process, and I wasn't a fan of welding that much on the output shaft for fear of annealing the steel too much. It was slick and worked well, however.

How are others pulling off this steering setup?

Example, but pitman arm isn't quite low enough for good geometry.

 

If you want to mount the steering pitman arm high, then 4-link the front axle

Sprint cars do that

 

No, thanks. I'll let the post-1960 styles run four-link. They'd stick out like a sore thumb on a track-style '26 T Roadster. They sure make setting caster easy, though.

 

A wealth of good info in here. Get comfy and start reading.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/cowl-steering-just-stop.1101046/

 

You mean like on the Duffy Livingtson roadster? Built in the early fifties mostly a road race car it has a track roadster look and a 4 link

 

If I look hard enough, I might find a photo of a track-T with a Ferguson Z120 tractor engine in it, but I'm not going to jump on a thread and suggest--off topic to boot--that putting that engine in a '26 track-T won't stick out like a sore thumb compared to the thousands of examples of flathead V8s, nailheads, Caddies, Olds, and Hemis that have come to form our understanding of "tradition."

 

Thanks, loudbang. This info is what I was hoping for from this thread's topic. Hopefully there is info on the best boxes to use somewhere in the 22 pages.

 

I know that this isn’t what you’re looking for. However, ididit bought Schroeder and is now producing them.

 

That looks promising if moved back into the cowl and down to get the geometry correct. I imagine the box, however, if anything like the rest of ididit and Schroeder's stuff, is likely pricey. I considered using a midget half-box down low, but even used half-boxes are over $600, and I'd have to figure out how to connect the quick-disconnect steering spline to a steering column shaft.

 

Twenty years ago I used a 57 jaguar box. There isn't enough room under the cowl to fit much of a box unless you don't have feet.

 

I just reversed a 1978 F150 manual box for my 27T roadster. Got the idea from killbillet. With the new parts and all, I've got just about $125 in it. It's long enough that the steering input shaft will center on the driver's seat. Don't have pics yet.

 

That was an enjoyable read. Not much help regarding what OEM boxes work best, but excellent discussion of geometry. I appreciate you including it here.

Coincidentally, when I built the '27 coupe twenty years ago, I used Pete and Jack's catalog along with other suspension books to design the steering, which are some resources Pete Eastwood recommends in that thread. I got away with the cowl steering by bringing out the output shaft very low on the cowl and using a pitman arm that got the correct geometry. Pete included a photo that is pretty much what the '27 coupe's steering looked like only through the cowl and what I intend for the '26 Roadster:

 

Well known roadster here on the HAMB.

 

Please post photos and more details when you get a chance.

 

How about a mopar box.

 

I bought a Schroeder for $75 at a sprint car swap meet. A guy was cleaning out his stash and had replaced it with a power unit. Just lucky I guess.

 

How about building a steering arm to clear your wishbones?

Cut the stock arm make a bushing of round the round part of the arm by machining it to fit in D.O.M. tube.

Then fabricating a new arm from .25" or .375" flat stock and welding it to the D.O.M.

Very common way to go on oval track cars in the early days of stock car racing

Jeff Weeks T uses this method see bottom photos I think he used a MOPAR box

Yes, the Schroeder stuff can be pricey but deals can be found @jimmy six found his for $75.00 and I found mine (below) at a yard sale for $100.00 from an old time racer who view it as just an obsolete part.

 

Schroeder are available..I had one for sale on here for a few weeks until the other day when it sold. It had exactly what your after I think as it came with a spline for a quick release. They are out there although the ratios might take some getting used to on the road.


Sent from my iPad using H.A.M.B.

 

BMW 2002 and BMW E21 steering box. [ VW beetle if the mounting is altered]
Or on heavy applications an early straight axle Toyota Hi-Lux 4x4 power steering box

No reversing necessary

 

Thanks, Mimilan. The 2002 BMW box looks very close. If it doesn't need reversing, even better. Apparently they make a close ratio version. My local pick-a-part often has 20 or so BMWs in stock and want $35 for a steering box. Hopefully the input/output splines aren't something oddball. Probably. Here's a photo a grabbed of an 02 BMW box:

 

Just to re-assure you , here is the whole BMW front suspension.
What you need is a trailing pitman arm to trailing steering arms [or a leading pitman arm to leading steering arms]
Most IFS front steering has the pitman arm arcing opposite to the steering arms.


When steering is turned anti-clockwise

the pitman arm also turns anti clockwise [Looking from the top down]
Lay it on the side and when steering is turned anti-clockwise
the pitman arm also turns anti clockwise [From the inside] or clockwise looking when viewed from the outside.

Left turn from the steering will push the drag link forward

The irony is it will also work with RHD because the box is flipped over 180 deg.
The pitman arm pushing forward on LHD will pull back the drag link on a RHD when the pitman arm is clocked 180 deg to the bottom.

Please get the geometry sorted, nothing is worse than a "bump steer pig"
Also if you buy a non-quick steer [wide ratio] box, you can correct this by having a longer pitman arm .
This allows you to raise the steering box more without having bump steer issues​

 

Thanks for the additional details and photo, Mimilan. Is 2002 the only year for this style box? Do you happen to know what models ran the box? I assume higher-end coupes/sedans will be the place to look for the optional close-ration box?

Here's what I've collected from some BMW forums (I've underlined the most important scrounging info):
Standard wide-ratio box
Ratio = 15.5:1, 3.5 turns lock to lock.
Part number for right-hand drive = 32.11.1.108.648
Part number for left-hand drive = 32.11.2.670.002
Tag numbers on box: 7316 955 171 or 7316 955 149

Optional close-ration box
Ratio = 12.8:1 (not sure on turns lock to lock)
Part number for left-hand drive only = 32.11.2.670.005
Tag numbers on box 7316 955 177 or 7316 955 155
The boxes are usually painted red oxide

General Info
Use SAE 90 gear oil for hypoid gears

Agreed on the geometry and bump steer. My intent is to have the steering box mounting as low as possible--likely directly above the floor pan on this highboy build--and configure the pitman arm to where it lines up on the same plane as the radius rod mounting point. I won't know if I'll have foot control clearance until I have things mocked up. The factory BMW pitman arm looks pretty long and has a substantial outward bend to it to where it looks like it might work nicely to get the drag link low and away from the radius rod without having the box sticking out of the cowl. Really, the box will be mounted just as low as a chassis-mounted setup. I'd have an easier time running an F100 box/column mounted forward the firewall, but I prefer the look of a cowl setup to mimic vintage circle-track cars like the one in my original post (although I'd want the drag link pivot lower to address bump steer).

 

I used a reversed Corvair unit from Flaming River, a stock F1 Ford arm, Speedway shaft and quick release wheel and the best ingredient for you: A cowl steering unit from Gas Alley Streetrods in Shawnee KS....this should get you where you want to be. Will try to post up a pic, this is on a real hot rod.

 

Oops, pic:

 

What about a late 70's toyota box? Seems like I've heard of people using them. I have one out in the garage, I could take a pic of it if it'll help. I don't think it had a pitman arm, been along time since I looked at it.

 

That is the Toyota Hi Lux 4 x 4 box but only the straight axle 4 x 4 [not IFS 4 x 4]
This also gives you the option of power steering as well

You can also use a '73-83 Toyota FJ 40 Landcruiser steering box but they don't have power steering

Landcruiser


Hilux /Forerunner/ Surf 4 x 4 power steering [this photo is a conversion in a Ford]

 

I saw another thread discussing Gas Alley Streetrods and looked at the Street Rodder write up, and I'm not impressed with their kit's pitman arm setup. I don't like the square cut hole design, and the pitman arm looks far too skimpy and go-kart-esque for my taste. The Corvair setup you describe is a good option, although I'd want a vintage wheel rather than quick-disconnect.

 

Another good option it looks like, but I'll have trouble locating one in a pick-a-part. The four-wheeler crowd seems to gobble those up before they hit the scrap pile. The BMW box is attractive since they are a dime a dozen.

 

Mimilan, is 2002 BMW the only year for the style box we've been discussing? Do you happen to know what models ran the box? I assume higher-end coupes/sedans will be the place to look for the optional close-ration box?

 

I believe he is referring to the BMW 2002 produced from the late 60's to the early 70's.