Technical Advice on Buying a Metal Lathe

I am looking for advice as I want to buy a small metal lathe to make decorative pieces for my builds. I have n experience with metal but with wood. I would like to get the smallest metal lathe I could but yet be effective enough to turn steel, brass and aluminum. Any suggestions?
thanks,
Joe

 

I bought a lightly used Smithy lathe/mill combo and LOVE it.
https://smithy.com/Combo-Lathe-Mill

 

Get the biggest one you can. Because your outlook on life changes, once you have a lathe...and it seems the one you have, is always just a little too small for that next project you want to use it for!

If you can find a used one with lots of tooling with it, that's the way to go...tooling is expensive.

 

I wish I had more space for a larger one, but what I have will have to do. I hated paying for that service or asking friends to make stuff for me.

 

Hey can I get you to make something for me?

 

How small?
Look at the Prazi SD400

IMG_20161024_100023641 by Chappy444 posted Jan 30, 2019 at 9:35 PM

Chappy

 

Go as big as you can afford; you can make a small part on a big lathe but you can't make a big part on a small lathe.

 

Now that's good advice!!

 

I would recommend trying to find a South Bend 9" if you can. They have gone up on the past few years pretty quickly though as there are a lot of people looking for them. Where are you located? Location could have a huge impact on how much a lathe will sell for in your area.

In general there's a great divide between lathes, mostly having to do with size, weight and the type of power they use. It really depends on what space you have and what type of power you have as well. Larger lathes will be 3 phase machines and you need to figure out how to power them. So if you're looking for a small lathe to run on 120v you'll be limited. There are more with 240v single phase but the best machines will be 3 phase. As a general rule of thumb, most homes can only power a 1HP-2HP motor at best on 120v. The most common 120v circuit is 20 amps. Many homes have 240v single phase 30amp circuit for a dryer when the homes were built. I had one that I repurposed for my home machines. I run both VFDs and a Rotary Phase Converter (RPC) on it.

Some of the popular small 120v lathes are South Bend, Logan and Atlas. Both the South Bend and Logans are desirable over the Atlas, IMO, as they have V ways opposed to flat ways as on the Atlas. Check your local craigslist and check often, but be in a position that you are educated enough to shop and buy one and more importantly know how to get one home safely.

If you have space I recommend looking for a better lathe and understanding how to move one so you can be ready to pounce on a good deal. The problem with knowing little about lathes is that it's difficult to shop for one. The majority of them are filthy and not cleaned for ages, but that doesn't mean they're bad lathes. You need to know what you're shopping for.

Depending on the type of work you do, a mill could be more valuable than a lathe. Lathes are good for one thing...making round parts. A mill can do a variety of work. On a car there are a lot of round parts, especially a lot of bearings and bushings and rods with threaded ends on them. Lathe are what is typically used to create threads also, so there's a huge value in a lathe for auto work. In that regard a lathe could be more useful for an auto restore type guy. Ultimately you need both, but I would avoid any combination machines as you will get a mediocre lathe and a mediocre mill. Resale is also really poor on combination machines.

Get the best lathe you can afford, as machinists like to say...buy once, cry once...

 

Avoid cheap new ones look for a good quality old one. Anything with a spindle hole of less than 1” won’t be overly useful. Try and get tooling with whatever you buy.

 

I have a 12” sears atlas lathe got it on trade for dome parts lots of tooling 3 and 4 jaw chuck steady rests live centres lantern post with all the original cutters knurler etc also a quick change post drill chuck with Morse taper bits etc etc probably 3 grand or more just in tooling.
I use it a fair bit
Look online these and similar brand lathes this size can usually be had for under a g-note with lots of tooling.

 

There are kind of two ways to go with this. New Chinese or used American. For relatively cheap and very functional, it's hard to beat the 9x20 Chinese lathe sold by Grizzly, Harbor Freight, Jet, among others. It is sometimes sold as a 9x19. Here is one example: https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-9-x-19-Bench-Lathe/G4000

There are several sites illustrating mods to this machine to improve its functionality and accuracy. The best is Steve Bedair's site here: https://bedair.org/9x20.html

The very first mod, which should be done if you do not do the others, is the 4-bolt compound clamp. This is a great little machine and I used one for several years to make various items. Do not go smaller than this. Note: The drive belts are kind of wimpy, so get a couple of spares.

The other alternative is a larger, older, American-made lathe. You can find these on places like Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace in the rust belt states, especially. My current machine is a 1949 LeBlond Dual Drive. It has a 15" swing and will do most anything short of oilfield work. I paid 2K to purchase it from a tool and die shop near Saginaw and hauled it back to Oklahoma. It is a nice machine, but requires space. It weighs over a ton, is about 7' long, and is three phase, so there is that to deal with. There are a lot of 13-15" LeBlond Regal's or Regal Makino's out there for 3-5K. They are a really nice lathe if the ways are in decent shape. The only downside to an older aAmerican lathe is the inability to cut metric threads on most pre 70's models

Some people swear by the old South Bend 9" class machines. IMO they are way too pricey for what you get.

The engine lathe is the most oft used machine in my shop. I use it at least as often as the drill press, usually to make tools for other purposes.

K

 

Personally I'd rather have one than an import Grizzly. I would definitely (and have) gone old American. I have a Rivett 1020F. It weighs 2 ton. I have 2 South Bend lathes also, one is a small 1946 South Bend 9A, the other is a South Bend 10L and it's in pieces at the moment, waiting to get restored.

I wanted to add something to your comment about South Bend lathes though. The reason they are so sought after is they are pretty simple to operate and fix. That goes for the Logans and Atlas lathes also, you can make most of the parts on the lathe to fix it in many cases. That antiquated technology is simple to repair and there are a variety of machines in that class, the mentioned are just some of the more popular ones. The small South Bends are also some of the few machines that will run off 120v, as are the Logans and Atlas lathes. This is important for a lot of people.

You can find parts for South Bend, Logan and Atlas lathes on ebay. No so on others, so for people that can't make all of their parts the South Bend is a good option. This makes it a good option for someone new to lathes.

Grizzly is the epitome of what has destroyed America, and why we don't see lathes being built in America these days...Grizzly just buys inexpensive product in China and resells it to you...that small home shop stuff will not last. Plastic gears, poor fitment, etc...yes, you can make them work but it takes an experienced machinist to do it in many cases. Maybe that is what builds character...LOL

 

I'll go against the crowd here and say that I am very happy with a Chinese mini-lathe I bought a couple of years ago. It has a 7" swing and can handle stock up to 20" long. I am like the O/P and want to make only smaller pieces to use here and there. At this point in time, I am past the stage in my life where I want to do do anything major. I like to "piddle" around and make decorative things. In no way do I want to use my lathe to true a rear-end housing or the like.. If that's what he's looking for, a mini-lathe is the answer. It takes regular single phase 110 volt power, fits on a tabletop, and doesn't take up a lot of room. Plus, it doesn't weigh a ton and doesn't need special equipment to move it and possibly a reinforced floor. Also, the tooling is easier to find and a lot cheaper.

Certainly, if he is planning on "moving up" to be able to major jobs, a mini is not the answer. But if you just want to make some simple turnings, it's a good choice.

 

I think you will find that for the same amount that you'll spend on a new 9" X 36"bare unit , you could add maybe 10% more & get a used 14" X 48"(maybe even a "gap-bed"?) with tooling & that you will be able to do everything on the larger lathe that you could with the smaller lathe, but also be able to do larger parts as well. For example if you wanted to modify a brake rotor to go on a larger hub it would be a "no-brainer" on the 14" lathe, while being almost impossible on the 9" unit. And if the 14" was a "gap-bed" you could even "face a flywheel" if you needed to. Just my 2 cents.

 

XLNT advice drt! In fact, I just took the one piece hubs off my 'ol '46 Chevy pu front axle. They are 12-1/2" in diameter. My lathe will only turn 13-1/2", but guess what? Yep, I'm gonna try and turn them myself. I'm thinking to just turn a shaft to press into the bearings and use a lathe dog on the hub housing. That should leave it spinning true on the bearings...I've never done one, but with my lathe I can. If successful I will have saved myself $50.

 

I use to hear that A LOT........right after "You're a machinist aren't you"!

 

my 14" clausing will do a flywheel with the ring gear off. fuck the chinese, get a real machine from the industrial age built by the leaders of the industrial age. as more and more shops go cnc, more and more good old stuff come on the market. as others have said, get the biggest you can. name brands, southbends are probably the favorite among hobbyist, and sell fast at a higher price than brand x. atlas (sears) i believe were southbend made. logan, clausing, etc, and others all good. bits are cheap but try to get a steady rest and a 3 and 4 jaw chuck. variable speed is wonderful, but the old belt drives work fine and i seldom change turning speeds except to go to back gear, then no belt change. you will use it more than you think if you have never had one. i use it a lot, couldnt go without. had a big 16" that could make wheels, but lost it in a fire. it was an antique all wore out but 16" and 6' bed. i miss it but my new 60's vintage variable speed clausing is quite a step up. get something-you will be glad you did. then, save up for a bridgeport

 

I've had my South Bend 9" lathe for over 20 years. It was made in 1946. I got it at a neighborhood yard sale, with a bunch of tooling.

A larger lathe would be nice...but you can make a lot of stuff with a smaller one.

 

I bought this little gem about a month ago. It's Myford ml-7, made in England and seems to be a solid little lathe and quite accurate. I don't have the room for a larger machine and this does most everything I need to to.

 

the myford likes like a nice little unit. the english make good machinery also. wish my lathe area was that clean

 

That's a beauty!

 

I'll go with the 'get the largest you can afford' crowd. It's mostly 'swing' that you'll want (which will be the first number), not many of us need to turn anything that all that long. The more tooling you get with it, the better off you'll be. I've got a 12X36 and many's the time I wish it was bigger. As noted, you can make small stuff on a big lathe, but not big stuff on a small lathe.

And don't turn your nose up at the import ones; I've seen them in military aircraft maintenance shops (who had no complaints; I asked) and high school metal shops. The local shop teacher said they're tough enough that the kids couldn't eff them up. Mine's a HF, identical to the Grizzly except was a bunch cheaper at the time, it's done everything I've tried to do. The little table-top lathes are fine if you're doing non-ferrous metals, but will struggle with steel.

And I'll note that where you are can make a difference in the used market. I looked for one for over a year and all I found was either 'project' lathes (missing/broken parts), worn-out junk, more $$$ than a new import, or ones so big I'd have to hire somebody to move it. The size/price we would like all sold by word-of-mouth...

 

TraditionalToolworks, points well taken. The asian machines have their limitations - mine came complete with loose screws and such. Hence the modification threads. The SB 9-10 inch class are much better, but I gave up on finding a decent one around here so just went with a bigger, old American machine.

I also like your comment about a milling machine. There are some things only a milling machine can do and they are really cheap on the used market, if you look. I found an old "M-head" Bridgeport, also in Michigan, for 600 bucks.

K

 

K,

I owned a mini-mill, it was the first thing I bought for metalworking. I bought it used for $250 on craigslist. I then spend about a week taking it all apart, cleaning it, getting everything put back together cleanly...lubed up properly, et al...only find find out more limitations. I upgraded the plastic gears to a belt system, I added an air shock to the column, bought some tooling for it...easily I put another $500 into the mill at that point. It still had it's limitations, so I ended up buying a real mill. At that point the mini-mill sat like my 9A does, not being used and my old blacksmith instructor was looking for a small mill, so I sold it to him for $400 with some of the tooling. Great deal for him.

I agree with you, if I had a mini-lathe or a mini-mill I could make it work. More so now that I've been machining for 15+ years, now I know how to fix things, how to make real parts, etc...so yeah, it can be useful...and a great craftsman never blames his tools and I've seen some amazing stuff done on small mini-mills and mini-lathes.

It's like everything in life...there are always options, we get to pick our poison.

That's a score on that Bridgeport! I've gotten some great deals in my time also...I bought my South Bend 10L for $200. I paid $500 for my 9A, but it was bare with almost no tooling at all..I spent a fair bit buying tooling for over the years...I don't use it but always uncomfortable when I think about selling it. The reason I bought the 10L was to replace the 9A as my second lathe.

 

Stay away from the old craftsman 109 series, very light duty and easy To bend the shaft.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

I had one of those that came with some other tools I bought. It's really a Dunlop lathe.

I gave it to a friend's son and they fixed it up and got it running. If that is all you have, that's what you use. My friend's son was ecstatic with it.

 

I like my logan.

 

I agree with all the others, get the largest one, up to a 12inch swing, that you can put in your garage. You will be absolutely amazed at the stuff you will want to turn. I have a 12 inch Lantaine, a Taiwanese lathe that I purchased in 1975, and I also have a Unimat with a 3 inch throw. I prefer turning everything I can on the Lantaine because it has the automatic feed and crossfeed. It is amazing how small you can go on the big lathe with the right tools, such as collets and a smaller chuck. I often use the Unimate 3 inch chuck in my big lathe to turn small stuff. Works great.
I have also owned an Atlas and a Myford ML-7. I didn't like the Atlas because, even though it was a 12 inch lathe, it had a flat bed, and I found I could work better on a lathe with a hardened v bed.
Unless you have a machine shop, I feel that it isn't the brand of the lathe that matters as much as having it properly blueprinted and trued. You can make amazing stuff on a piece of crap lathe, if it is properly trued. You just have to make lighter cuts and be more careful.
I saw a beautiful 12 inch lathe, with 3 and 4 jaw chucks and a face plate, and over $1500 worth of tools. The price was $1,100 us, and it was a hell of a deal. You just have to watch Craigslist, keep searching, and jump on the ad the second you see it, because there are lots of people looking for them.
You can also do beautiful wood turning on a metal lathe, you just have to make certain that you clean off the material and reoil the bed to prevent rust. I have been doing woodwork on my lathe for over 40 years.
Good luck, you may find it is addictiive. There are also a lot of good books out there for the Amature Machinist, that will teach you how to anneal and harden metals, and you can make a lot of turning tools from scrap metal from things like bearing races.
The first book you would want to get your hands on, is an old copy of Machinery's Handbook.
Bob