Technical Oiling issues on Small Journal 327, no oil pressure at idle

I had a problem like this once,, the timing cover noise is the key clue. The rear cam brg is not completely over the groove in the block,, not far enough in. This allows the oil to flow behind the cam and push the cam forward creating the sound in the timing cover,,, contact of some sort. Also the oil can bypass the end of the cam at an idle,,hence low oil pressure. When looking at the cam brg,,from inside the block,, it should be approx. 1/4 inch into the block,, not flush with the block. That is the problem more than likely.

 

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That bearing looks a lot like the 283 I mentioned before. #1 is the end on the line as far as oil is concerned with 1 more destination, #1 and #2 rod bearings. Pull those rod caps and take a look as well. The cam bearing issue mentioned here would have the same affect as an open relief valve for sure. All things unfortunately equal a full tear down.

 

Your not alone when it comes to this. It'll pass soon enough.

 

I built engines for 26 yrs and ground every block breathing cast iron dust, just part of the drill so I know what you went though

Sad to say that there is some dirt in there some place, that scraped up that main bearing

DND

 

life is a learning experience, crate engines teach you nothing......

 

Every galley needs looking after. Even the ones between the top of the cam bearing bore to the actual galley above via the oiling holes at the main journals.

 

One of the cheapest things you can do. Is immediately after firing up a new engine for the first time and breaking in the cam . drain the oil. and remove the filter and cut that filter open and inspect it. Inspect the oil for debris also. some kind of dirt or debris damaged that main bearing. Too late for that now. However you have the pan removed. Put a large container like a plastic tote under the engine. wire a container up under the oil pump. you can cut a gallon plastic oil jug to work. So you have about three quarts of oil available. Get some one to spin your priming tool with a drill. And you look and see if there is a internal oil leak or excessive flow ect.

 

Thanks guys. It's just frustrating. I do appreciate the help.

 

Torana68- That's just beautiful. Is that Walt Whitman or Ralph Waldo Emerson? Or maybe from Sun Tzu's Art of War?

 

So, could lack of oiling cause the marks? Picking up bearing material and smearing it? I am going to get an electric drill today and check the oiling as we discussed last night, but I guess my question is how will I know if I have remedied the bearing catastrophe ?

 

You know by cleaning ALL the holes on everything !!!

A good thing to do is drain you oil into a paper paint strainer , then you can see if you have any junk in it

Low oil pressure did not scratch your bearing it was dirt of some kind

DND

 

I believe you have an internal leak. The fact that you can make good pressure at 2500 RPM tells me the pump is working. Before completely assembling the engine, take the pan, timing cover off, install distributor and remove pump. Block the pump hole in the rear cap temporarily (with someones finger tip) and blow air in the pressure gauge hole in the block. With a small amount of air at first, listen for the sound of the most air leakage. That should point you in the direction of the problem.

 

Yeah, I did drain it through a paint strainer. Didn't find anything. As far as cleaning, I don't know what more to do. I guess I could tear everything back down and start over, but with as much time as I spent, I would think I should have had it covered. I guess I can seek out a caustic vat next.

I ran it up with an electric drill. Still not enough oil to the rockers. Something ain't right.

 

Been following this just casually but have you mentioned what kind of priming tool your using? I know there are a variety and some do little more than prime the pump which could show your low pressure to the rockers?

Just a thought. Hope it ends up being less terrible than its looking

 

I have one like this.
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/cc...hRITlPkw-IaAhBZ8P8HAQ&ibanner=MobileSwitchYes

I think I may pull the intake to see what is going on in the lifter galley. Then pull the timing cover and see what is happening there etc.

 

Best of luck to you.Stuff like this will try the patients of a saint.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

 

If possible find a shop that has changed out their hot tank solution recently, that stuff can get pretty nasty.
I started my first automotive machinist job with the hot tank detail (new grunt).
Got sent pack'n because I argued with the forman about getting blocks clean enough.
And it wasn't because I disagreed that they can't be too clean.

 

CHECK THIS!

 

in some of the early blocks the rear camshaft bearing support is deeper.

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post. Measure the lifter bore clearance and rule it in or out. I don't think anyone has asked what the actual Main & Rod bearing clearances are. Stick to the basics and hang in there

 

It seems like he wants a miracle fix? The engine obviously has a internal oil leak. Yet he wont pressure check the oiling system with air pressure or by turning the oil pump with the pickup immersed in oil with the oil pan removed as I suggested. Almost guaranteed that engine will have to be taken apart. however It would be expedient to know where its at and what the oil problem is? and it well could be that a cam bearing oil hole isn't centered properly in the block ?

 

Air will be leaking out all over the place whether you have .0015" or .005" and you won't be able to tell what from what.

 

yes on a engine with good internals air will leak every place. However his engine obviously has a sizeable internal leak and there will be a good possibility of locating it. And The method I recommend using oil and the priming tool actually does work. its called a leak down test.

 

My neighbor had a 671 blown 454 in a Chevelle he got from the auction yard.
THREE engines later, the NO oil pressure-at-idle engine was still in the car, with pan removed. I asked him if I could crawl under and do an air pressure test.
Him: "No...I'd rather you didn't do that...I'm taking it back to the machinist."
Me: "The same machinist from the last two?"
Him: "Yes, that's the one..."

Some reluctance to use free compressed oxygen is apparent here.
So, my mind screams: "To 'Air' is human!"

 

Hey Root

You need some stuff like compressed air - brush kit - solvent - soap & water - and some shop rags or towels and a little oil

A siphon blow nozzle to spray the solvent & soap on and into your block

And clean your own block then you will know it is right

DND

 

I refuse to let this thread become like the one where everyone dogpiled on the original poster when he didn't run out and comply with all requests. I will look into your suggestions, however, I have not disassembled the engine and will not without exhausting all troubleshooting avenues. Every time I tear it down, money is spent. I have to make sure I understand the Why before I just start ripping and shredding. I do value the opinions of my fellow hambers, but I would like to hear them all before proceeding.

 

Thanks. Looks like that may be my next move.

 

Good question. OK, so this type of wear is either abrasive wear (caused by contaminants, aka 3 body abrasive wear) or adhesive wear (metal transfer from one surface to another, caused by contact between the surfaces, or "micro-welding", where friction caused heat results in the surfaces welding together, then further movement causes the weld to tear apart, resulting in transfer of metal from one surface to the other, this is a clear indication of a lack of lubrication). I'll be honest with you, in that pic you posted I can't tell which it is. Most here are seeing it better'n me, or they're just guessing that it's abrasive wear. You have the bearing in hand, take a close look at it, are the marks grooves in the surface cut by debri; or do they show transfer of metal from one surface to another?

 

So, when I spun it up I see a stream right below the oil return hole. Not sure where this goes, just an observation.

So I built another pressure gauge setup for the front of the galley. It also reads the same as the rear gauge.

I pulled the lifters about half way up to see if they were oiling. They were. I am curious about the oil hole placement though. If it's getting to the lifter but not up to the rockers, what's up with that?