Hot Rods Early Ford spindle interchange thread

I look in the search area already! What I need to know is the differences between Early Ford spindles from Model A through 48. mainly the bearing and seal area. What fits what and what can be done to make things fit (bearing spacers etc.) I think everyone could use this info, so thanks in advance.

What I know is 37-40 or41 are round back spindles and 42-48 are square back spindles. They are interchangeable but the later ones work better with the F100 self energizing 11" brakes and Lincoln brakes although the round back spindles can be ground to clear these backing plates.

36 drums set inboard 7/8" more than 37-48 and the backing plate is held on with smaller bolts in a smaller pattern.

Model A spindles don't have the larger seal area or bearing stand off that the 37-48 do and they use the smaller bolts and pattern.

I don't know about 32-35 spindles because I don't have any. If anybody knows anything pertaining to spindles, brakes, bearings, seals, etc. please add to this thread.

Once again thanks for adding to the info in this thread.
Jim Ford

 

Good info, btt.
Hope others can add more. Over the years, I have used '40 Fords, '46-48 Fords and the aftermarket type without arms , all on dropped Model A axles. The '40's are attractive, but I like the later ones, just as a personal preference, when dropping the arm to clear the wishbone.

 

I know that there is a way to use 40 brakes on a model A spindle, and it has to do with a bearing spacer and a piston ring to center the backing plate. Does anyone have info on this? Jim

 

Some families to get you started:
1928-35 all have smaller bolt pattern (requires rework of one set of holes or the other for later backing plate) and the longer actual spindle requiring a simple spacer to take later drums.
1936 is a hybrid...early bolt pattern, short spindle snout like '37-48.
1937-48 all have the larger bolt pattern and short spindle, differently shaped but interchangeable platform for the backing plate. Basic patterns match F1 and early F 100 trucks.
All the earlies use same diameter of kingpin.

Spacer kits...sold everywhere, allegedly the best is the set from MT products...probably true but have not looked into the matter.
Outer ring snaps onto ring that locates and centers backing plate, enlarging the early style slightly to match '37 up.
Inner ring is I think a bit less than 1/2" thick and moves the inner bearing out slightly on the '28-35 so it has same span as the later drums and it also has OD to accept seal.
On the bolt pattern, commonest traditional way was to file bolt holes on hydraulic backers towards center, allowing bolts through into early pattern. Some have welded metal onto early spindles to allow big pattern, some have welded up backing plate holes and redrilled for a neater inward adaptation.
All '28-48 use same actual wheel bearings.

 

In 35, Ford went to cross steering, the 35 and 36 spindles look the same, however the 36 is one year only and is about 5/8" longer than the 35, the 35 spindles will work with all 32-35 brakes. The 36 wide 5 drum will only fit 36 spindles and can't be used with later juice brakes, and is the last year of the small bolt pattern at the backing plate. 32-34 spindles are easily reconizable as they have the side/traditional steering arm that is forged with the spindle, not a bolt on as with the model A. 37 was the first year for the very popular and iconic round back spindles, 37 and 38 were still mech. brakes, albeit cable actuated instead of the push rod, and carried over into the juice brakes of 39. 39 was the last year of WIDE five and first year of juice brakes and back to the 5 on 5 1/2" bolt pattern.

28-48 spindles will work with all 28-48 axles, when changing brakes/backing plates, some mods need to be done to the early spindles and or backing plates.

 

Thanks Bruce and Harv, that's the kind of info I was looking for. If anybody else has any thing to add please do.
Jim Ford

 

Here are a couple of pictures of the various spindles discussed above.
Model "A" easily recognized by bolt on steering arms and 3/8" backing plate mounting holes.

'32-'34 are the only spindles to have an integral side steering arm, also the same 3/8" mounting bolts.

'35 spindles have an eye for cross steering and the same 3/8" mounting bolts. '35 no longer had the steel grease "seal" as earlier spindles and included a area for a normal seal to ride.

'36 is similar in appearance to a '35, except the spindle snout (bottom) is now shorter and the space between the tie rod eye and the drag link eye is longer as compared to the '35 in the above picture. The earlier upper spindle snout pictured has the bearing spacer used to fit later hubs for juice brake swaps

'37-'41 round-back spindles have 1/2" backing plate mounting holes and the steering thrust bearing now goes on between the bottom of the axle and spindle instead of on top of the spindle as in earlier years.

'42-'48 square back use a longer kingpin and bushings; but are otherwise functionally the same as round back spindles.

'48-'52 F series look a lot like square back spindles but have a bolt on steering arm on the L/H spindle and no drag ling eye on the R/H side. The area the inner bearing rides on is larger in diameter than the car spindles.

 

Thanks RICH B those are great photos and descriptions.
Jim Ford

 

The difference between 36 wide five hubs and 37-39 wide five hubs is that the 36 brake drum is 7/8" inboard of the later hubs.

 

here is a link to early Ford axle i.d.
http://oregonhotrod.com/ford_axle_id.htm
and a link to my axle i.d. thread
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/early-ford-axle-i-d.956659/
Good info to have on hand.
Jim Ford

 

An older thread (but still a good one to find with the search!) thanks @55willys and @RICH B for the detailed info. I have a question I may regret asking but here goes: I have the original model A spindles, does anyone have advice to use those in a cross steer setup? I was thinking to switch the arms one side to the other, cut the balls off/drill for tie rod ends, and bend the arms. Or, cut one arm off the drivers side and use one of those cross steer tie rod ends? I'd like to use as many of the parts I already have as I can. Thanks in advance, should this generate some replies!

 

I think you will find that there is not enough material to cut the ball off an A arm and drill for a regular tie rod end.
Not sure what you are doing; but if you are going to juice brakes; your best bet would be to get a set of '37 up spindles. If you are keeping the mechanical brakes some '35 or '36 spindles would be the way to go.
If the A spindles and arms are good; they can be easily sold to recover some of your cost.

 

Do the '48-52 F series spindles use the same diameter king pin as the cars or is it bigger? I had a '29 PU at one time that had similar looking spindles on a '40 axle, I was never sure what I had.

 

Also i think i remember hearing the F series spindles had different King pin inclination and not ideal for early axle. Anyone know more or could confirm or deny?

 

F-1 spindles use the same king pin set as '42-'48 car and '42-'47 pick-up

Angle is the same as car spindles. Kinda ugly tho, unless you trim them and use bolt on arms, and while you can use F-1/F-100 brakes, F-2/F-250 & Buick drums, or aftermarket disc brakes; you can't back-date them to the earlier Lockheed brakes due to the larger diameter of inner bearing.

 

What is the end result you are looking for? Mechanical or hydraulic brakes maybe disc? There are many ways to get to the end and some are better than others.

 

Back in the 1970's I restored a Riley 4Port sprint car that must have had right hand drive spindles just like these. The tie rod ran in front of the axle and had the same forged arm on top. I later swapped then for the above style. Bob

 

Sorry about that I should have explained! Hydraulic; I have a set of F1 front brakes and hubs. (The rear axle will be an explorer 8.8 with drums.)

 

Easiest solution is 46-48 spindles because they clear the backing plates better and they will have the arms you need for cross steer. Any other way is a ton more work for a not so good solution.

 

You are not the only one who needs to know this, it will be a good thread if we can get everyone to participate.

I probably don't have anything to ad. I am pretty sure that you can put a round back ('37 and newer?) on an A axle I don't think that they changed the king pin in them.

 

Yes, direct bolt on. All 28-48 spindles will fit all 28-48 axles provided you use the kingpin designed for the spindle. By all, I mean Ford passenger car.

 

Great thread

 

One thing to note is Ford used mechanical brakes through 38'. The mechanical brakes used a king pin that has an actuation rod inside, this was used until 37' when they used cables instead of rods.

 

I thought it worked that way but I have been known to know something then find out I didn't know it after all.

Thanks

 

I got surprised myself with a pair of '42-'48 spindles, and their LONGER KING PINS.
As @prewarcars4me stated, all spindles will fit all axles, '28-'48. (spindle dictates king pin)
I've probably done 40 cars with '37-'41 round backs, and quite a few with '42-'48 types as well. With age I forgot.
"Ve get sho shun oldt und sho late schmardt" -old German proverb.

 

K.P.I. is the same on Model A thru early F100. Chevy is different; some guys had to bend Ford axles to 'positive', for Chev's 'negative K.P.I.
Aftermarket axles were made up both ways: Back East guys in the '60s thru '70s used easy to find Chev brakes, spindles, and drums. (Early Ford spindles, brakes, drums were practically gone by then, and Total Performance, Gratiot, and other kit car suppliers offered Chev Bendix brakes for their tube axle kits)

 

I've searched the internet for this answer. Thank you

 

Question about these aftermarket spindles. They sell them as '37 up. But they are round and have no place for a tie rod. School me

 

Round back spindles are 37-40. 41-48 used square back spindles. The register and bolt circle is the same but some grinding on the top may be necessary to clear certain brake set ups.

The aftermarket spindles are all round back and you will have to purchase separate steering arms that bolt on. The steering arms come in stock height or dropped for tie rod clearance with dropped axles.

 

Thank you. I'm a little less ignorant I guess something like this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/1935-1948-...m=253955201169&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851