Projects Tommy R Attempts to Build a Hot Rod Model A

Thanks, Bryon. I would like to run a forged axle and I'm not sure an axle purchased from Speedway would use real steel or China steel. I definitely don't want the latter!

As it turns out, I had a vendor card I picked up at the Round Up for Joe's Speed Shop (http://www.joesspeedshop.com/) and I gave him a call this afternoon. Super nice guy! He takes stock, original "A" axles which are forged and bends them to your desired drop. Not only that, but he'll build it specific to your spindles if you send them to him ahead of time. And that's exactly what I intend to do. He'll also bend the steering arms on the spindles and will ensure that everything is accurate. If need be, he'll even put all new kingpins in for $100. Not sure if I need that, though.

Anyway, I'll be away from the car this weekend, but next week I'll remove the spindles for shipping to Joe and will inspect my kingpins for wear.

Also, I asked him about the amount of drop and he told me a 4" drop axle actually nets an additional 3" of drop over a stock axle. Good to know. I plan on a Posies reverse eye spring for more height reduction and may also opt for their "super low" spring setup. Still need to research it....

 

Here's a forged Model A axle with a 4" drop that I got from "Okie Joe". If you lay a straight edge across the top of the kingpin bosses and measure down to the top of the perch bosses it measures 4 inches.... well maybe a little closer to 3 15/16". It's really a nice piece...

 

Great to hear! Thanks for the info.

 

Hey y'all,

Got a little bit of an update. Tonight I decided to tear into the '40 front end I picked up. First thing I noticed is that I will need new kingpin bushings since there's noticeable play. When I have Okie Joe bend me an axle, I'll ask him about this. I also plan to have him bend my spindle arms to match the 4" drop. Yeah, I could do it, but it's cheap enough and I understand he does a very thorough job.

Anyway, here's some pics as I tore down the axle/brakes. Overall, things looked pretty decent, but I'm no drum brake expert so if you see anything out of the ordinary, let me know.









I wasn't sure how to get the spindle and kingpin separated, but now I know I need to get this wedge bolt out and then hammer the kingpin out from underneath.


And how it looks as of tonight. I'll try to get the rest torn down over the weekend.


I'll get the drums turned (as little as necessary), get new shoes, pick up new bearings (although these do look pretty good), pick up some new hardware, and begin re-assembly after I get the new axle. I still need to pick up a wishbone splitting kit and get going on that.

 

Looks good so far, also looks like you have some really nice sheet metal to start with! Good luck!

 

Thanks, man!

I forgot to mention I have a set of wheels coming my way. Just some Ford solid steelies in 16x4 for the front and massively wide 4.5" for the rear. I'm up in the air regarding tires. I will probably go with 5.50 and 7.50 bias ply Firestones. I'd love to go with Coker Classic radials that look pretty darn close to bias tires, but I'm not made of money! They'd cost me over $300 more than the bias tires. Ouch!

Speaking of wheels and tires.... I'm not sure if it'll work out as planned, but I'm hoping to give my car a split personality. With the Ford wheels and skinnies, it'll have an early to mid '50s vibe. But I plan on having another set of wheels/tires to transform it into an early '60s show/drag car. The jury is still out, but I'm thinking of 15x7 chrome steelies or Radirs with pie crust cheater slicks in the rear with some sort of front runner that may or may not match the rear wheels. Here's a few cars that got my attention. Not sure if I'd run wide whites or not.

Grit's coupe is fantastic, obviously!


Not crazy about the radial tire choice here, but the overall look of this one is pretty nice.


Love DW's coupe!


Murrell coupe.


I love the look of spindle mounts, but I want to run front brakes. Finding a good looking 15" front runner with a 5x5.5" bolt pattern ain't easy, it appears. These will also serve duty as my drag wheels/tires, too. Fortunately, I don't have to make these decisions now. I'll pick up some bias plies for the Ford wheels and set up the suspension with them. The drag stuff can wait.

In fact, if anyone has some used bias plies they want to sell that I can use for mock up purposes, let me know! They don't need to have any life left in them.

 

I think I may have decided on a 302 for the motor. The plan is to pick up a late model 5.0, but don't shoot the messenger just yet! I'll install a timing cover from an '83-'85 so I can run a mech. fuel pump, slap a carb on it, remove all the unnecessary brackets, and I'll run a Ford Racing short water pump (1.5" shorter than stock) with a v-belt pulley setup. I'm hoping that maybe.....just maybe....I can fit this motor between the grill and firewall without cutting into the firewall. Not sure how feasible that is but it should be about 4.5" shorter in length than a flathead.

I realize purists may look down at the thought of a 302, but it's got a lot going for it... Roller cam, low mileage, decent power in stock form, lots of cheap/easy power potential, parts availability, great reliability, and if I use a donor from an Explorer it'll have GT40 heads. A decent carb/intake, a moderate cam, and it'll easily be over 300 hp which should keep me happy for awhile. And it can be made to look pretty vintage, if you ask me. And I'll do my best to achieve that look.

Got my wheels in from Nostalgia Sid today: 16x4's and 4.5's. They look great! I'll get the 4.5's blasted before paint. I also scored a Holley 650 double pumper for free-fifty-free and ordered up a Deuce 1" drop front crossmember and a wishbone splitting kit. Soon it'll be time to make sparks on the chassis....

 

Nice coupe, with Modernbeat helping it will be rad.

 

I'm using a small Ford in my '29.Bit of a tight squeeze but I had the engine before I started so,there was no way I wasn't going to use it.Good job I've got short legs!
With the extra length of the Deuce frame and the short water pump,it should be a much better fit than mine.
Keep the up-dates coming,
Mark.

 

Thanks! Yeah, modernbeat and recently metalshapes have both been extremely helpful in answering my millions of questions. Actually, I've gotten help from a bunch of folks, most of which are on the HAMB. I'm hoping to make some more connections here in Austin so as the build progresses I can persuade folks to come lend a hand from time to time. Beer and pizza will hopefully do the trick!

Thanks for the info, Mark. I didn't realize you were running a SBF. I think the plan is to get an Explorer 5.0 with stock GT40P heads, put an old timing cover on it for a mech. fuel pump, the short Ford water pump, v-belt pullies, and of course convert it from EFI to a carb setup. I have to look into what is involved in getting rid of the coil packs and installing a distributor, though.

BTW, loving your build. Your fenders came out super clean!!

Tommy

 

Thanks Tommy,much appreciated.
Not sure what's involved in removing the EFI system as I started with a '65 289.One issue I did have was oil filter clearance on the frame rail.Switched to a Motorcraft EFL90 (or equivalent),as fitted to the old Pinto engines, which gave me lots more room.I think it's only about 3 1/2 inches long.
Mark.

 

WOW.. What a sweet looking body to start you'r project off with. Looking forrward to you'r build.Keep us all posted...........PINCHER

 

It's not to bad, swap the intake with a carb one, and make sure to block the EGR. Most aftermarket places (edelebrock) will make bolt on replacement.

There is quite a bit more involved if you are doing it in an EFI car (like transmission ect), but most ford/mustang forums have topics on it

http://www.mustangforums.com/forum/speed-density-carb-ssp-section/416193-efi-to-carb-swap.html

I did the reverse on my OT car.. that was a pita I looked into swapping back to carb with that bottom end a few times but have since decided to go with a LSX setup first if I'm going to do a carb conversion on it.

 

Looks a good start to a project. I'm building my first Model A as well, its a 30 Sport Coupe. Flathead powered, but I'm going to run fully fendered as per my wife's wishes.

 

You won't be sorry that you are using the 302. When you push down on the go petal that smile will be worth any hassles you may have heard....good luck !!

 

Hey Tommy looks like a great project and thanks for posting. There is a LOT of info out there on the late 302 and setting it up carb etc, sorry no longer have the links tho. Have just saw that the post a couple up has a link. Good luck mate and a Ford in a Ford isnt a bad idea

 

looking goood

 

Thanks for the heads up on the oil filter, Mark. I'm sure that'll come in handy!

Thanks, man! More updates coming tonight, actually. Waiting on the pics to finish uploading...

Yeah, it doesn't look like the carb swap will be too bad and the good news is I can sell all the take off EFI stuff. I think the biggest issue is piecing together all the right parts to ensure proper clearance with the timing cover, eccentrics, and fuel pump. Still, I don't think it should be a big deal really... At least I hope not.

Definitely pays to keep the missus happy!

 

I think you're right. I'm liking the idea of the 302 more and more. It'll start off at just under 300 hp and, honestly, that should feel like plenty in such a lightweight car! And if I want more power, some heads and a custom cam can push me to 400 hp easily. If I want more down the road I can always do a stroker.

I guess technically speaking, the SBF isn't as "period correct" as a SBC, but I think it'll be close enough for me. Heck, I'll just tell folks it's a '62 221 c.i. And I think it'll be kinda cool to actually run a Ford in a Ford. No, not that I really care about that.

Thanks!! Yeah, I'm getting lots of great info. and I think I now know pretty much everything I'll need in order to complete the transformation from boring SUV motivator to a vintage styled hot rod powerplant.

Thanks, man...

Got some pics uploading and will post a bit of an update after dinner.

 

Man, I wish my A body was that nice! If it were though, I would'nt have been able to afford it, lol. Nice start!

 

LOL, I hear ya! I had to search for awhile before I found one that wasn't crazy overpriced or a basket case. I did spend decent money on this one, but I think I got a very fair deal and I'm happy with it.

So I didn't get too much done this weekend, but I have a bit of an update. One of the reasons I didn't work on the car 'til today was because on Sat. night we went to Mercury Charlie's for the Hot Rod Honky Tonk which featured a car show followed by a Junior Brown concert! Way damn cool. The car turnout was pretty slim due to the threat of rain (I assume). It's a bonus that his shop is literally 4 blocks from my house. Thanks to Mercury Charlie for a great time!





So today I tore down the passenger side brake/spindle and it went pretty straightforward. Eventually I got the leaf spring/crossmember separated and began working on punching out the kingpins. Boy, was that easy! Granted, I've been soaking the entire front end in PB periodically over the last several weeks, but just a light tap and the kingpins came flying out. I guess those bushings really were worn out?

Once the spindles/kingpins were removed, I went ahead and split the wishbone. So technically speaking, I guess today marks the start of "making sparks" in the build. Baby steps, right?


I got one bone separated from the axle pretty easily. And now I need to take the spindles and send them off to Okie Joe so he can bend up my dropped axle.


However, I've got an issue with removing the other bolt that holds the wishbone to the axle. It refuses to budge. I had a castle nut on there and broke the nut trying to pound it out. I decided it would be best to try to press the bolt out. It's sitting in the press right now under load and soaking in PB. But it won't budge. I'm thinking I may need to put some heat to it and I still don't have an oxy/acetylene rig. Anyway, here it sits in the press as I wait and hope it eventually pops free. It's lined up straighter than it looks in the pic.


If anyone has other ideas on how to remove that bolt, I'm all ears!

And another question. I cut the wishbone to leave the bones as long as I could. When I placed the bung for the kit next to the bone, it was clear that the hole in the bone was quite a bit too small for the bung (even once the old slug is removed).


I figured this would happen. So my question is this.... Should I continue to shorten the bone (thus increasing the hole diameter) 'til the bung just barely fits or should I drill out the bone. I think shortening the bone is the way to go?

 

I'm looking into what needs to happen in order to start welding the frame together. FYI, I currently have a set of Speedway Deuce rails using Speedway front and rear spreader bars. I took some measurements of the front of my chassis and it seems to differ significantly from both the Wescott dimensions for a Deuce chassis, as well as the dimensions listed in the Bishop/Tardel book.

For instance, the front of my frame is 23.5" total width. Wescott says it should be 23.75". Not a big deal, but the problem gets worse as I measure a little farther back.... Keep in mind I don't have anything specific to locate the crossmember. The Wescott diagram shows the center of the crossmember should be ~14.5" from the leading edge of the chassis. That looks really set back to me. The Bishop/Tardel book shows that it should be closer to 12". I put it at 12" and I think that looks about right. Thoughts?




Of course, the problem is that the Bishop/Tardel book says the width at the crossmember should be 26". Mine is about 24.5"! And that crossmember you see is apparently intended to be welded to boxed rails. Obviously, they are just resting within the rails for now.


Any idea why my rails could be off so much? Maybe I shouldn't complain because being this narrow it almost looks like it wouldn't need to be pinched to match the body. I'll get a better shot of that tomorrow. I'll also measure the rear of the frame to see how accurate it is.

 

Tommy,I have a copy of the book '32 Ford,The Deuce' by Tony Thacker.It shows the measurement from the front of the frame rails to the centre line of the front cross member as 14 and 5/16ths of an inch.
It also shows the width at the front as 23 and 5/8ths of an inch.
These measurements are for a stock '32 frame.
Hope this helps.
Mark.

 

-Subscribed. Lookin good thus far. On the stuck bolt; I think It's time for the blue wrench brother. I managed without an oxy/acy rig for years but things were really tough, especially through the rust belt. I was forced to buy one for a few reasons and now I wonder why I didn't buy one YEARS ago! Best fuckin investment in my garage, well besides my slip roll, shrinker, welder...etc...you get the idea. They all add up to make the big picture brighter. Sure you don't use it every day but knowing you have it in the corner to help you out is good enough for me! Rock on bro!!

 

Good morning Tommy, I'll start by saying that the body you have there is super clean, Also, I flattered that you think my coupe is nice, thank you for the compliment. I saw you questions on my build thread and I'm sorry I have not gotten back to you on those yet, I'm working on it. As far as the bones, yes just cut them back a little at a time till you get a snug fit with the bungs, make sure you taper the edge of the bungs and bones so you'll have a nice area to weld them together. I know one of the questions you ask me about was the set back of my engine and the distributer being up in there kinda far, yeah, it is next to imposible to get to from the out side of the car. The firewall recess is a trap door design that will fold down from the inside to access the dizzy, cleaver, I know lol. Now, about the pedals placement, that's a whole nother post, (read PITA), we'll talk about that later, I'll pm you my cell # and feel free to call me anytime K.

 

Speedy Bill had his chassis designed for the Speedway '32 lowboy, which meant that the rails are slightly closer together so the body slips over the frame... I suspect your Speedway spreader bars result in your frame not being as wide as stock! You could always shim the spreader bars to get a stock width...
Yea, the front frame horns stick way out there... a lot farther than a model A. Remember, that the '32 grill and shell fill up some of that space.
Some of these chassis guys set the rear axle first, then measure up and set the front axle. I'd go with the Wescott's dim's. Of course you could always slide that crossmember forward an inch and you just might be able to shoehorn that long ass Ford engine between the radiator and the firewall...

 

Agree with the 1" wheel base stretch. More engine bay room and some improvement in ride.

With a highboy you can pinch the rails so they fit tight against the grille shell.

 

Thanks, Mark. That looks pretty similar to the Bishop/Tardel dimensions. If I want to stretch the front an inch, I could shoot for 13-1/4" or so, based on those numbers. Of course, if the very front of my frame isn't exactly accurate to the original, this could screw up the crossmember location big time! And how will I know?

"Blue wrench".....I like that. Yeah, I definitely need a torch setup. Just too much other stuff I need right now and not enough moolah for it all so I need to "pick my battles" so to speak. I'll get a torch soon, though. I'll have to!

Hey Gary! Glad to see you made it over here. I later came across a post where you mentioned a dizzy access door. Pretty cool! I definitely want a manual trans so I'll hit you up about what you did with your pedals/steering column. Got your PM and the offer is much appreciated! Expect a call sometime soon.

No kidding?!? I had no idea these rails were intentionally different from stock. So are they essentially pinched already? If so, I guess that's cool as long as it doesn't cause any other problems with the build. The narrower front end may make it tough to mount the motor mount/steering box/steering shaft, I suppose?

I'm hoping that with the short water pump setup I can avoid hacking the firewall, but we'll see. I'm still researching that one.

 

Yeah, I think the 1" stretch will have some nice benefits, but not look like it's been stretched. A win/win!

Are your referring to pinching the rails just at the front near the crossmember?

 

Three pedals in a Model A is fun