The Banger is dead - long live the Banger. 2010's first banger thread

Don't be afraid to run it. Clean it out like Steve said above. Change the fluids. Clean the carb and fuel system. And don't try to do it with the hand crank. Save your energy and do it with the Starter motor.
Don't worry too much about the cracks. If the engine is cracked it will have to come apart anyways.

Here is a link to a good list of restoration and repair books:

http://www.mafca.com/ref_books.html

Here is a link to some good on line Model A resources and FAST is a group you should join if you are into hopping up Ford Bangers :

http://www.hotforhotfours.com/links.html

 

I did just as these guy's are saying and for the past two years I havent had any trouble yet, mine sat from 1962 till 2008 in a lean to, and it runs better every time I drive it.

 

You can get away with running an 8:1 or even a little higher (mine's about 8.6) for a while. I have put several thousand miles on this motor but you have to make sure it's not pinging. It will loosen up the bottom end in less than 500 miles if it's pinging very much. If you go with the super winfield or any head without a flycut relief over the pistons, make sure you check how far the piston comes out of the block. I used the Best Gasket (it's black with red piping) and it fit the chamber of the super winfield very well and has sealed good. I think I bought it from Mac's. It crushes to about .060 and you really need at least .030 of room between piston and head....actually you need more like .035-.040.
PS mine is babbit but that will probably change soon!

 

I did buy one of the repop winfields from Red's and I was disappointed in the quality of the casting. If was VERY rough in the chamber and certainly not useable as is. I have started cleaning up the chambers but I would buy a thomas if I had it to do over. Maybe I just got a bad one but....maybe i can find a pic.

 

Hey Andy, Nice roadster. I see you are running a V-8 water pump, what is the advantage of that set-up over the A pump? Also can you get by without a coolling fan?

 

I think you can get by without a cooling fan but you can't idle it much. I think the crack in my block was from a freeze years ago before I purchased it. The head that was on it was cracked too. The V8 pump is stronger. The best setup in my opion is a pump on the side, like a Model T or something, that pushes water into the motor. The original pumps and the v8 are sucking the water out of the block. Seems to me that there is more chance of steam pockets that way....again...my 2c...and thanks for the kind comments.

seeing your avitar makes me wish I had kept my 29!

 

i thought about doing that but i have heard of a couple guys doing that and blowing a gasket soon after, but who knows

I looked at one of those and i have heard they are a better casting from a couple different guys now, i may have to give it a shot, thanks!

Ok, thanks for the tip! i have used that gasket before and it does seal pretty well. that winfield casting is pretty rough looking, thanks for posting the pics. one more question though, what is the torque for aluminum head stud nuts? 45?

 

you can do most anything in moderation . i would be careful with the 8/1 . pull the timing back a little & dont run it long . thats alot of head ........... steve

 

Keep in mind that when you run much over 6.5:1 compression with stock pistons you will run the risk of this:




Andy knows what I'm talking about.

.

 

ive got major money & parts in mine , but only run 6/1 so it will live forever or close !
... steve

 

Very true....it is a risk...I think if your easy on it you can get by for a while. Like I said, I've put only about 3000 on mine since the Super Winfield went on. It seems good for now. I ran Charlies 7.1 Lion head before that. I know that it won't last very long if it pings! Roughly speaking, I added about .004 to the bottom end in less than 500 miles when i had the dizzie slop problem back in the summer. PING++++PING++++PING====KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK

Here's what you have to remember. Miller's DOHC were turning 8000 rpms in the 30's running babbit. All the older guys will tell you that babbit has won many, many, many races and set many world speed records. A friend went 169 mph with a GMC with babbit....He also ran a banger at about 10:1 comp for quit a while with babbit.

I wouldn't be too afraid to do it for several thousand miles if things are right! Just make sure you have enough squish area. If you don't, you'll never get it to quite pinging! And DON'T use Champion plugs!

Now with that said....CDO IS RIGHT! IT COULD HAPPEN AND IT DOES HAPPEN! And those are expensive lessons....or just expensive paper weights if you don't learn from it.

 

you smart man!

here are my influences

"....but it....well....maybe it.....it might....i don't know...it really....well....it really wakes them up....but I don't want to hurt.....it's expense to....that's alot of compression...."

"Awe hell just put it on already!"

and it's on!

 

ahhh 2010 Bangin. I will have mine going this year- it is my resolution.

 

I got the Thomas repop and I was disappointed with the drilling of the water ports I think the china guy was blind. the chambers are ok but need some work I never cc them but I will before I put it on the B engine.
P.S. I don't know if it was made in china or not but I hope with the quality it wasn't
later Bill

 

hmmmm....i guess i'm still looking for an original cast iron winfield red head....if anyone got one for sale...pm me.

 

thank you guys for all the advice, it's nice to have a group of guys to turn to when you have a question, especially for the speed part aspect of it. i'm young and have alot to learn, thanks for the teachin!!

oh and Andy.... well said

 

The secret to babbit is oil, lots of OIL, along with a good fit. Iceman

 

Some of you guys will roll your eyes and say oh brother, here we go again, but for a newbee, suffer my question if you can. Is the babbit we're getting today the equivalent in every way to what Harry Miller or who-ever went fast with in 1940. Tin content the same? Other quality factors the same?

Hell I remember the stuff Globe bearing in Los Angeles was doing about 1970, and that stuff would just about fall out of the motor on the way home from the shop. Some of it was truly awful.

 

In the newest issue of FAST there is a T roadster in the back with a '33 motor and trans, any one have more pics of it?

 

the best thing you can do with babbitt is ................. install inserts ! .. steve

 

I managed to get the pictures I took at Antique Auto in Rosemead from my cell phone:-

 

Do the T-Banger's count? This is for my next project, slowly collecting parts.

 

I believe that the quality of babbit would only have improved over the years as all other technologies constantly improve. As to Globe bearing, I never had any engine bearings poured there but I run my compressor on a daily basis and that is who I used to pour the bearings in it. I realize this is Apples and Oranges but there it is.
As to inserts i have one thing to say. Make sure that the inserts used are available! Most of the "A" sizes are from obsolete engines. Skokie rods use a wide insert but they are just Tin over Steel backing. Fine with not too much advance and low compression. H&H also make a rod that uses a wide bearing but are temporally out of stock. The Id's and OD's are based on the Continental Y 90 engine which uses a 1" wide insert and most shops have narrowed these and used 4 per rod. The bearing sets consist of 4 tri metal and 4 white metal inserts. Some say they have used 2 per rod with success. The wide bearing (insert) uses only 1 tab for location so if you convert a rod that uses wide bearings to use 4 of the narrowed Y 90 bearings you must locate and cut a total of 4 slots, 2 in the rod and 2 in the cap

I have recently been emailing with a couple of other guys that are having problems with inserts. Interesting story regarding a couple of touring engines that were seizing up. It was discovered that there was not enough clearance on the rod bearings and not enough oil was escaping and being thrown on the cylinder walls. With the clearance opened up the problem was solved.

 

Awesome! I just came back from my buddies... in two weeks (the 23rd) I'm sneaking the roadster into his shop and the car will be mocked up. Hopefully it'll be done early spring!

 

T's are more then welcome. Please keep us posted

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Well it looks like im offically part of the Banger Club. I just picked up a 29 A Roadster its in pretty good shape, runs, drives, doesnt need any patches. The fenders are kinda rough but i think im gonna pull them anyway. Im also gonna swap out the mech brakes for 39 Hydros and Wide5s, tune her up, pull the bumpers and maybe alil paint and run it Banger and all

 

very interesting, i know it has come up so many times before and that oil is the key but i was wondering why babbitt works so well... i just did a quick search and found this site... http://www.woodboringmachines.com/babbitt.php there are other sites with this info but i just clicked on the first one i found and it explains it pretty well... just thought i'd post for anyone that was curious, sometimes we talk about car stuff and just say it's the way it is just because it's the way it always has been, and us guys that are somewhat new to this hobby/lifestyle, or werent there when it happened, sometimes dont take the time to stop and ask why... a friend of mine gave me a bar of tin base babbitt, after reading a bit it seems that nickel based would be the better way to go, or am i way off?

 

This subject, babbit, comes up quite regularly on the "Barn", Who makes the best, just exactly was Henry's formula, was it soft so that the impurities would imbed and not score the crank pin/journal. The application seems to be determined by how many X's are used. There are a lot of different formulas in technical publications but not all apply. I remember hearing about a guy that poured the best that supposedly added a Silver dollar to each batch. He was probably the same guy that opened his "A" ports big enough that a silver dollar would pass through. Most of you guys probably don't have a Silver dollar that you want to melt.

 

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HEY Bill...
Most of you guys probably don't have a Silver dollar that you want to melt.


I think the Silver dollar would be the cheapest part of a model A-B engine. I think I only have 1 or 2 I would melt mine for the banger