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Technical Suspension: Drop Axle Jig 2ND Generation pics

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by titus, Jan 22, 2007.

  1. titus
    Joined: Dec 6, 2003
    Posts: 4,614

    titus
    Member

    Well some people asked and here you go, we went and redesigned that jig again, this time for an overhead press.

    It just got very tiring jacking the bottle jack, and i was thinking about using some kind of hydrolics, to mount it on the jig that already existed it would hang below and have to be on a slide, no big deal, well then i though, how about a overhead press?

    I told my dad about the idea and he went with it, he stayed after work a few night and planned it out and built one, then called me up and i went over and looked at it and then we took it for a spin (he had already tried one with success.


    Ill try and explain this whole prosses, ill do it in about 3 posts.

    first post 2 pics of the jig, started with a piece of c channel, and a c channel upright on the to be dropped and with a pair of axle ends welded to it, so no space no spacers, much tighter much better.

    on the other end are two uprights made from 2x3 thickwall tubing. ( if your gonna build one wait till you have the other end made and can place them in the correct spot, if they are to far away youll stretch you axle to much, youll see the set up pictures about where to place yours)

    and everything braced accordingly.

    stay tuned
     

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  2. titus
    Joined: Dec 6, 2003
    Posts: 4,614

    titus
    Member

    ok set up, ill try my best at explaing.....

    put the axle in the jig, we use kingpins, solid ones, not hollow early ones.

    youll notice you may have a different gap at both perch bolt pads, thats ok, you need to make spacers to make the amount of drop equal, so say you have a 5" gap and you want to drop your axle 2" more then you put 3" of spacers below that, then if the other end measures 4-1/2" you want to put a 2-1/2" on that end.

    we made a deal that bolts to the far perch bolt hole with a shaft that 2 rollers slide on to, that makes it slide down the uprights alot easier, we found that sometimes a c clamp is required to help it get down that last little bit and hold it there.

    there are also shim required between the roller and the uprights, if you only are gonna drop an a axle you can make it the same, but like us we drop 28-48 so if its got a larger gap than needed it easier to put a spacer in there, there is also a small shim for side to side movement due to the jig being made to fit 32 heavy axles.

    then you have to position the perch bolt end that is going to be dropped under that presses ram, also notice we put a bolt in the perch to take the stress of pressing on it.

    hopefully you were able to follow me on that part of it, ill post some more pics, then ill do one more of the process.
     

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  3. titus
    Joined: Dec 6, 2003
    Posts: 4,614

    titus
    Member

    ok, more typing, ill try my best,

    so, the obvious, heating the end, i wont go into how you do that, you just have to know how to do it, it obvious when it is too cold or hopefully not too hot:)

    when you do heat it you have to remember not to get to close to the perch hole of the kingpin hole, i always stay about 1/4 away form where the inset fades into the face of the axle (that make sense?)

    then you press, slowly, you notice the far end drops fisrt, we c clamp it to make sure it doest try and pull back up, the slowly press until the axle touches your spaces, you have to make sure it touches the perch boss area and not the axle, it get close.

    we let it set for a few seconds than release the press, then pull the c clamp of.

    then remove the roller assembley, then the shims etc etc, then nock out the kingpin.

    then repeat for the other end.

    remember its HOT!!!

    so there you go.

    TITUS
     

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  4. cheaterslick
    Joined: Nov 2, 2003
    Posts: 701

    cheaterslick
    Member

    Right on, I JUST finished reading all the old posts about the other jig. This is perfect.
    One question; the guide for the rollers is 90 degrees to the base? This meaning the axle in not allowed any movement lengthways?
    This would mean the kingpin holes are the same distance apart both before and after the drop, correct?
    Great tech, thanks for taking time to post it up. The drops look REALLY good.
     
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  5. titus
    Joined: Dec 6, 2003
    Posts: 4,614

    titus
    Member

    they are 90 dagrees to the base

    but we do leave a little bit of gap between the rollers, it all depends on the amount of drop and type of axle. it usually turns out to be a 1/4 to 3/8 of a gap, so the axle does narrow a bit but not to much. you can really stretch it a little more or even a little less if you like, we done it all sorts of ways and found the ways it work best for our setup.

    jeff
     
  6. Great tech! How would you go about straightening an axle?
     
  7. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 2,581

    Mart
    Member

    Great tech: Good heavy-weight construction. Does it require a lot of force from the press? Depends on the heat, I expect, when the temp is just right, does it require a lot of force?
    Thanks for posting the pics. I expect a few copies will spring up here and there.
    Mart.
     
  8. titus
    Joined: Dec 6, 2003
    Posts: 4,614

    titus
    Member

    electric over hydraulic.

    straitening an axle is really not that hard to do, you just have to press on it in the right spot, usually where the pain was inflicted origianlly.

    it doesnt strain the press to bad, but its a hydraulic press so its hard to say, but it doesnt seem to bad.

    jeff
     
  9. JohnnyG.
    Joined: Aug 3, 2005
    Posts: 1,253

    JohnnyG.
    Member

    so instead of working today, we dropped a model A axle at bear metal kustoms. turned out bitchen. this is the 4th axle weve done and they are turning out perfect. we can do 1-5 in drops on A axles and up to 4 on 36 and up axles. ill get some pics up for everyone tomorrow. were going to start offering this as part of the services at Bear Metal Kustoms. PM jason if you have any questions.
     
  10. JohnnyG.
    Joined: Aug 3, 2005
    Posts: 1,253

    JohnnyG.
    Member

    we just built a stand that holds it in place and use a rose bud to heat it up. bottle jack to stretch it. if you PM Bear Metal Kustoms, he has pics on the shop computer and he can explain things.
     
  11. Bear Metal Kustoms
    Joined: Jul 31, 2004
    Posts: 1,857

    Bear Metal Kustoms
    Alliance Vendor

    Actually on the model A axles I don't want to go more than about 3.5 inches of drop.. on the 36 about 4 inches total drop is the max... My jig would do more but they start getting narrow and not keeping nice lines. This is a couple pics of dropping a model A axle 3 inches.... Jason.
     

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  12. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,540

    zman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Garner, NC

  13. Flathead Youngin'
    Joined: Jan 10, 2005
    Posts: 3,531

    Flathead Youngin'
    Member

    what is that spring rearcher in the background
     
  14. Bear Metal Kustoms
    Joined: Jul 31, 2004
    Posts: 1,857

    Bear Metal Kustoms
    Alliance Vendor

    yup, I use it to rearch springs and reverse eyed on springs.... You guys pick up too much info from pics. I might have to delete them..... Naw... Copy it, I don't care ... Jason
     
  15. Fe26
    Joined: Dec 25, 2006
    Posts: 543

    Fe26
    Member

    Hi guys, I'd just like to put 2cents worth in. Speaking as a blacksmith here and wanting you to do axle work safely, here goes.
    The axle is made of a very high grade alloy steel which has been drop forged to shape and then normalised. What forging does to the metal is refines the grain structure, gives grain flow and makes the metal denser all of these contribute to greatly increased strength. Also a high percentage of Vanadium has been added to the steel to make it exceptionally pure and free of internal defects.
    You see the guys that designed those axels had safety in mind, strong and tough enough to withstand thousands of pounds of pressure as you drive and tens of thousands of pounds if you bend it.
    The one thing it is not allowed to do is break.
    Normalising is a process were the whole axle is heated to a uniform temperature in a furnace and then allowed to cool at a certain rate, normalising removes stress that has built up as the metal has been forged and bent.
    Now mushmouth (and others) this is just the start of what those other guys know and you don't, and why they should be paid for their work. As the saying goes, give a fool enough rope and ......
    Heating the job; heat the job slowly and evenly, use a seriously big heating tip, (inch dia. minimum) run the flame about a foot along the axle from the end you want to bend until it's hand hot ( that is when you can just touch the metal with the back of your hand without getting burned), then slowly heat the area you want to bend both sides and top and bottom evenly and slowly (it is not a race to get it hot). Practice heating a piece of scrap steel, observe the red colour as it changes from dull red to red then orange red then orange and finally into yellow. If you have managed to see the metal turn white you've got too much time on your hands or you're showing off, or your wasting the boss' gas.
    Red after dull red is the colour we are looking for or if you don't have a powerful press a little tinge of orange will be alright. At bright red/yellow some of the alloying elements are starting to burn in the metal causing it to become weak.
    Bending; commence bending slowly and in one movement, once you start do not stop, an axle end should take 5-10 seconds, leave the axle under the press for another 10 seconds to let the metal settle down.
    Repeat the procedure on the other end. Check the axle for straight and twist and rectifiy with heat and force if neccessary.
    Place the axle in still air (no drought or breeze) either on a warm dirt floor or on warm bricks, (not on a cold concrete floor), slowly heat the axle along the centre area where it wasn't heated before to hand hot, let the axle cool slowly in still air.
    When cool it should have no (or very little scale) on the bent areas,
    heavy scale is not a good sign. Wire brush the axle then off to the machine shop to have the holes reamed for true and your'e done.
     
  16. skidmarks
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 1,382

    skidmarks
    Member
    from Jonestown

    getting them megnafluxed is cheap insurance. the jig in the first picture looks like its bent were its clamped to the bench, how accurate is the dropped axle compared to a stock one ?
    also i think there was an aftermarket dropped axle made of ductle iron ?
    as far as compentent work, i had a mor-drop axle done about 10 years ago, the ends were ripped out when it was dropped and then welded back together. that says alot for were that shop went. sent a cherry 32-36 axle out and got a crappy axle back. wont ever deal with them again
     
  17. skidmarks
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 1,382

    skidmarks
    Member
    from Jonestown

    there was also a artical a number of years ago in i think street rodder, were the axle end was heated in a forge, pulled out cherry red and had 2 garden hoses , one running cold water through the king pin hole, the other in the wishbone boss , then stuck in a jig and dropped in one fast yank. that looked scarry!
     
  18. JohnnyG.
    Joined: Aug 3, 2005
    Posts: 1,253

    JohnnyG.
    Member

    well, im not sure what you mean by this. we never mount it to the bench. we compared one of the axles that was dropped 3" and it was exactly the same as one that was bought for another project. and our jig ant no light weight piece of equipment. takes 2 guys to pick it up.
     
  19. JohnnyG.
    Joined: Aug 3, 2005
    Posts: 1,253

    JohnnyG.
    Member

    i do believe jason offered to help anyone make their own jigs. you compared dropping axles to something entirely different, building bridges and overhanges, yes that takes some time and skill. dropping axles doesnt take a whole lot of time and "rocket science" but it does take a little to make everything line up correctly.

    when you go to drop an axles side, the other side raises up first. it has to have a specific spot to stop and for the bendiny to begin. hell, if it were as easy as you think it is, then hell, go for it. but i have a buddy that is a blacksmith and he wouldnt even touch on the idea, just because it was all based on angles and degrees and all that bullshit.
     

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