Sorry for the noob question(s), I'm still trying to learn when it comes to traditional suspension setups. I'm going to try to keep this as concise as possible, bear with me. My 37 Ford pickup rides like hell. Crazy harsh. I want to soften the ride and add some shocks to help absorb the bounce. After hours of research I'm not sure I have a solid direction for doing this. Hoping to gain some insight here. I've attached a couple of images of what I'm working with which is a steel body 37 Ford pickup, 3x2 boxed frame (with lightening holes) 302 w/ C4 and 4 wheel disc brake. I haven't weighed it yet but I'm guessing in the 2500lb range? The front spring has 10 leafs, and the rear has 8. My plan is to add some gas shocks on the front and coilovers in the rear. Should I remove some leafs as well, to soften the ride? Or should I just order a new spring? I tried measuring the perch holes like I've seen (to figure out the size of spring I need) but maybe I'm missing something. I can't seem to find a spring that fits my measurements. I did read that something like 37 and later axles moved the perch bolts closer to the king pins so maybe that is the issue? Also with this being a spring behind suicide setup I wasn't sure how that effects my options for a new spring. Do you guys think taking out a couple leafs and adding some shocks would make a big improvement? I have some questions about adding shocks to the front of this thing as well, but let's take one thing at a time. Any knowledge / advice you guys can pass along would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. View attachment 3484280 View attachment 3484281
Figured I'd add a picture of the front when the spring is loaded as well. It's not the best but I can take a better one when I get home if need be.
Looking at your pic I see that your springs seem to be rusty as hell. I´d spray them with Ballistol or if you ca´t get it where you are WD 40, just to see if that makes any difference. If they don´t slide, they will be stiff as hell. Good shocks are mandatory. If the penetrating oil helps, remove the rust between the leafs, give them a good paintjob and reassemble them with grease. Wrapping them isn´t a bad idea either, to keep dirt out.. if they are still too stiff after a Ballistol bath I´d remove a leave or two.
PS: Just imagine, how the leafs need to slide easily on each other when you hit a bump. rusty metal does not slide well on rusty metal, and multiply the by 10 leafs, that´ll make a real harsh ride.
It may just be my eyes but it doesn't look like you can get a lot of action out of the spring with the way the shackles are set up and the angle that they are at now. A quick test might be to get a couple of size XL buddies to stand on the front of th frame one at a time and see if the front end drops down smoothly and the shackles move smoothly while the leaf spreads out a bit. My guess is that the shackles are going to hit the point where the leaf can't spread any more and binds up. The old trick of taking the spring apart and cleaning up the leaves and smoothing out the wear spots in the tops of the leaves while smoothing out the ends of the leaves so they slide more smoothly on the leaf below them and then lubing the leaves before you put the pack back together would help too or using something between the leaves to help them slide. Old rusty springs that have never been apart aren't going to work too smoothly on anything. Looks like you have a good start on a fun little bobber truck there.
Thanks for the info guys. Does 10 leafs seem like overkill on this setup? Just wondering if I should go ahead and take 1 or 2 out while I have it apart cleaning / lubing. Unfortunately the springs were like that when I took ownership. I don't drive it in the rain and store it in my garage, so I'll make sure I keep up on keeping it lubed / sealed so rust won't be an issue again. As for the shackles, what angle would be ideal? I believe I read 45? Although I think that was referencing a spring over setup, would that still apply with the spring behind setup? That sounds like could become a whole thing....
Seriously, you have no shocks on it now?! Shock absorbers are not optional equipment! Get them on all four corners, before you get yourself, or others killed.
10 leaves on the front is too many. Your main leaf is too long. You can probably correct both those problems by having a new spring made (custom made locally) with less leaves and a shorter main leaf, but the same loaded arch so the finished height will be correct. And put some shocks on it! EDIT: After seeing the closeup pics in your other thread, I see you need to get those spring perches up off the ground. Ever heard of "scrub line"? You would be very close to grinding the shackles on the pavement if you had a flat tire at speed. Get a new spring made with LESS arch and move those perches up higher on the wishbones. If you can't get the perches higher without moving them inward as well, you will need a shorter spring too. Should have the finished shackles at 45 degrees.
Well.... anyone know a good suspension guy near Columbus Oh haha? This is great info, but being this is my first hot rod and I'm still learning the ropes, I'm sorta screwed when it comes to actually fixing all of this
Wish I new. I'm going to measure center perch to center perch, as well as kinpin when I get home from work. I'll post those numbers up. And I hear everyone on the shocks. I'm not currently driving the truck. I bought a new car so the truck has been sitting all winter and I'm finally getting back into it. Shocks were literally the next think on the list.
Okay, tell me if this is better: Every suspension system has a rate of movement, or rather a frequency rate, at and beyond which it will oscillate totally out of control, until suspension movement is brought to a complete halt. This can be mathematically calculated, using all of the suspension dimensions, angles, spring rates, bushing friction and elasticity, etc. If you happen to cause any or all of the suspension to reach this frequency during operation, the result can be as simple as wheel-hop (aka: death wobble), or as severe as instantaneous unrecoverable total loss-of-control of the vehicle.* All road-going vehicles, since a little after the origin of road going vehicles, has been equipped with a device, or devices, of one form, or another, that dampens suspension movement, both up, and down (sometimes sideways), to dissipate excess and unwanted kinetic energy, converting it to heat. The most common device know in modern times is the common tube shock absorber. These function by moving a perforated piston through a container filled with oil. Think of trying to run in a swimming pool. The process of moving that piston through oil converts the energy of suspension movement into heat, via friction. Modern tube shocks frequently have orifices in the piston that are variable, altered by the speed/force being applied. This is commonly known as velocity sensitive valving. Some are equipped with a charge of dry nitrogen gas. This is to prevent the contained oil from foaming, or cavitating, and causing shock fade. Almost all shock absorbers have a biased rate of travel, in terms of compression and rebound. Some are externally adjustable to alter these settings. Due to the nature and pressure of gas charged shocks, you might find them disagreeable on a very lightweight vehicle. *If you find yourself in an accident, and you survive, you may be found at-fault, even if you did not cause the accident, as you are operating a vehicle without properly functioning legally mandated safety equipment. Worse yet, if your insurance company elects to do a a post-accident investigation, and they VERY often do (adjusters are trained to look for things like this), and they discover that you were operating your vehicle without properly functioning legally mandated safety equipment, they are within their legal rights to void your policy. This would you leave you, or your estate, on-the-hook for all of the damages, injuries, deaths, etc.
This is not just the engineer me talking. I very nearly tore a Porsche in half at Lime Rock, after blowing a single strut. That was in 1993, and I am still messed up from it.
Absolutely. The truck isn't being driven again until shocks go on. As for the spring issue. The shackles are pretty much at a 90 (facing straight at the ground). The rear shackles are about 65. So neither are close to 45. Here are measurements from my axle and spring: Axle Perch to perch - 38 King to king - 46.75 Spring Eye to eye - 39.5 Overall - 40.75 I just took some quick measurements when I got home and was trying to do it solo. So they might not be dead on but close. Does anyone have any idea what these could be from / where I could source parts. Or am I looking at custom stuff? I sprayed the spring down with some WD40 and jumped on it just to see how much movement I currently have. I'll upload a quick video of that. I dont know how much movement there should be, especially with just me jumping on it (I'm about 215lb). Video: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7G-Gyn10CFxSU5pVm0wZ29jWjg Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Posies Rod & Custom catalog has good information on spring perches and springs in general. Page 24 shows the spring perch angles. They can also make a spring to suit as well. This catalog has good info on old Ford suspension in general. http://www.posiesrodsandcustoms.com/ http://www.posiesrodsandcustoms.com/wp-content/uploads/2014-Posies-Cat-PROOF-4-4-14.pdf Others have reference this for spring perches in the past. The HAMB has been a good education.
No fare using real facts. That has gone so far over so many heads that they had to rent the good year blimp.
Ballistol... That stuff really attracts the ladies! They come in and say "What the F&ck is that smell!?"
I'm working with Posies Rod & Customs to get the correct springs the truck. They're also helping me identify what the axle is from, it's looking like an original 37-40 axle that's been dropped. What are the thoughts on running an original dropped axle as opposed to a new one? Any pros or cons?
Nothing beats good old Henry Ford steel from the River Rouge plant. I would not bother replacing it. There are many aftermarket axles out there. I have yet to see one that is made of a material that can do this: Pros: ^This^. Cons: None.
Put your pics back up here, properly. We can probably tell you what kind of axle you have by looking at it.
Not sure what is considered the "proper" way of uploading the images? Usability isn't a strong suit here. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Directly under the box where you type a response, there is a button that says "upload a file". Isn't it there for your app too? Your other identical thread got deleted, so those pics aren't showing anymore.
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