They are quiet. I have played with them before. I did this in 1975 with Stu Denyes. Slant 6 170 cubes , covair turbo charger. Actually worked well. Stu won a ton of money with this car. I am committed to this supercharger m90 deal with the jag though but still when the guy gave it to me all overhauled etc I sure wasnt going to say no thanks. What am I going to use for a steering box? I havent thought about it yet. Whatever is light and relatively inexpensive and available with the last being the top of the list. the Sr dragster has a Tracker box in it and it works well. The Jeep build has a 58 Pontiac box in it and it worked well. The Altered in this attached pic has a Chev 1/2 ton box in it and it worked well. I have the front end just about done now. I am working on the upper rails. That is my goal for tomorrow to set the angle where they meet at the front, cut them and tack them in place. I am using 1 1/4 right at the front with a upsize splice to 1 1/2 at 48 inches back . That works best for my setup i think. Don
Always keeping my options open I also designed a throttle body based on the old Snowmobile carbs i used on my Sr Dragster (Tillotson HD carbs) I cut the carb in half just below the venturi. I chucked it in my lathe and bored the hole clean all the way matching up with the largest section where the throttle plate sits. I spent about a week filling voids and holes, reworking it till i got a workable throttle body. I took my completed sample to a friend who got 6 more cast for me. When i came home tonight they were in my mailbox with the flag up like I had mail. The foundry did a very good job. Now i have to figure out a foolproof machining sequence so all will be exactly the same. I am an automotive machinst but not a general machinst so I am not used to sorting out these kind of set ups. I think honing the bore to size first will give me a reliable surface to work off and i a can make a jig from there for the rest. I am going to think about it for a few days to be sure. Any of you who know the answer I am asking for suggestions. I have two lathes and a big vertical mill. I would like t use these on the jag but also on the Slant six mopar rail as well with a Fi support system mech or electonic. The reworked sample from an old carb is at the left and the six new raw castings sit to the right. Don
Personally, I would ream your mounting holes to the exact same size and distance apart on the mill, face off the mounting flanges with a flycutter, then make a fixture with a pair of dowel pins in the mounting holes and clamps to locate each one the same, then indicate the center of your fixture on the mill and bore out each of the TB's...or make a round fixture for the lathe to bore them on there after reaming the hole pattern and facing the flanges...whatever you do, don't use bolts to locate your TB's in the fixture, dowel pins are ALWAYS accurate, bolts are not...
Thank you. I can do that. Then the dowel pins become my reference point and everything works from there. right.? Once i have faced off the ends then the throttle bore is at right angle exactly to the flange. I can centre my sample on the fixture first then all should be well and i will just mount each unit and bore it? If I make a fixture for the lathe using the dowel pins for location and Then all holes will be in exaclty the same spot from the reamed and doweled holes . So i should probably plan on spending more time making the fixture than I will probably spend doing the machining. Once i get it to the point where I have established the hole or throttle bore exactly and have smooth bored it in the exact location I am tempted to use the sunnen rod hone to finish it to size. Maybe this is not good but i am very familiar with it and work to .0001" easily on it aiming for zero error or as close as i can possibly come. I have no problem spending the time on the fixtures as I think I can use these on several projects and will have more cast if it appears so.
OK, I made the fixture for the lathe. I faced the bottom of the flanges off first then mounted them on the fixture. I averaged the error on the throttle bore then machined the top of the stack. All six came out fine. Now I have a true surface to chuck them off of and can bore the throttle bores. I left the bolt holes very small so I can correct any errors there later with an end mill and a fixture in the vertical mill. I spent all day at this but it was worth it. Looks good. to me.
...or make a round fixture for the lathe to bore them on there after reaming the hole pattern and facing the flanges... Thanks. I did this and it worked . Just finished rough boring the Tbs . All were clean at 1.597" . Finish bore is 1.625". No voids. Tomorrow I will change on the chuck jaws and bore the last bit which I could not cut from this side. (last .150" right at the chuck jaw face. ) Photo is too bright . If someone can fix it go ahead please. This is boring the first one. Don
The front suspension is coming together nicely. I made the clevises in the lathe since i could not buy them locally. I tig welded them in place. I am really getting into this scratch tig thing. 1/4 eliphtic with long traditional style upper radius rods. They have heim joints at the rear. All tubing is DOM .120" wall steel. All sizing complys with NHRA IHRA rules. Still have not found some matching motorcycle wheels so the axle stubs have not been made. I am contemplating a Buttera style bellcrank steering set up at the front all mounted just under the front round tube. Don
Thanks. I do but I dont have the rear bends yet. I have been waiting now 1 month for my pal to bend them to my patterns. He doesnt seem to get it and works on everything else. I dont want to move it till I have the rear bends in and then the differential bracket uprights. I started building my own bender. maybe not for now but next time. Trouble is he is very good at bending and they always come out perfect to my pattern. I am sure there is a learning curve to running each bender and i was hoping to avoid it and a pile of wasted tubing. . Don
Would agree about the bender. I've ran a couple different styles than the one I own. Think it would have been easier if I'd never ran a bender at all rather than than trying to adapt. Your spindles have Ackerman built in?
I don't know that ackerman would be all that important on a dragster would it? I know you see rods with the spindles swaped side to side to put the tie rod in the front, and I really wonder what they must drive like, but they do a lot more turning than a FED would, Just a thought.
Yes i have ackerman. As a licensed mechanic and a former trade school instructor the thought of building without ackerman is unthinkable to me personally. Tis true at speed and in a straight line it makes little if any dfference however over 90 percent of the turning a dragster does is at low speed, usually 10 mph or less. Backing out of the trailer . cruising through the pits, turning on and off of the track . I have watched too many pals with big REDs chewing front tires off their cars as the wheels fight each other on every turn. I have ackerman on my other rail as well. (also the HE-EP project altered. ) To me personally it is important to do it. I know others dont feel that way. That is Ok too. For me? My shop, my boat and i'm the captain so i built it in. Don
"Get that thing done and bring it down to Eagle Field this May." I would have to bring the other one, the Sr dragster. I am supposed to be just poking along at this build. (That is what i told her) Don
A couple of dumb questions,what years were what motors in the Jags. I see some setting around but I don't know which were which,carb or injection,differences in ignition.I know the ones that get replaced by Chevys have turbo 400s,but are they G.M bolt pattern or Jag. Just curious I may have walked by the perfect one already . Thanks
Ideally a 3.8 Jag six is the one to run. I havent worked on one since they went to the chevy trans so I cant answer that. Back in the day they used Borgwarner trans. The 3.8 has two or three SU carbs. I have a 3.6 . It is a much more modern engine but i got such a deal on it I took it. I dont think it is quite the motor the old 3.8 is. The 3.8 is a dual overhead cam hemi. The 3.6 is a four valve per cylinder pentroof design. It has electronic fuel injection. Don BTW I can understand replacing a V12 with a chevy but to replace a 3.8 six or its big brother the 4.2 with a chevy is to me not understandable. Here is a video to wet your appetite http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=H9jl3BbWRA4
i am wondering about getting the front axle and radius rods painted the new black chrome. I really like that look. Anyone used the stuff yet? Don
Worked all day but seemed to get nothing done. Actually I did. I got the rear bottom hoop spliced, pluged welded and installed in the lower frame rails. The hoop is one piece just in case someone misunderstood but i splice them in at the first decent section of straight run tubing. 1 1/4 dom with a 6 inch section of 1 inch dom inside and four plug welds per section. I like this method since i know when it is final welded it will be the strongest section of the whole chassis. I have one upper rail with a slightly stressed bend. A minor bend error on a 12 foot section can be a much bigger error at the other end. It is slightly over bent even though it looked good but I have a device known as "the unbender" that will make it perfect and remove the stress from the chassis. It works very well for this as well as straightening bent frame rails in friends CM cars. I will post a picture of it in action tomorrow. Don
Got some uprights in and tack welded. Everything so far is square but will double check before final welding. That one bigger cross brace is just sitting there as i needed to gaurantee no movment on side rails as i worked on the rear section. Don
Upper rear hoop installed today. Layback is 20 inches (top verses bottom.) That should help keep the roll bar hoops shorter and the car shorter(not as tall as would otherwise be). Hope i dont go to sleep sitting in it. Don
Looks good. I was thinking about layback the other day. The best looking cars have the hoop bars parallel with the rear of the chassis. Seems to me like the higher the upper framerail the safer it'd be in a sliding down the guardrail situation. The bends in your upper framerails are to accomodate the Jag?
Yes and perhaps another slant six too someday. I also built it so i can run an early or later hemi as well. I felt I built my last rail too tall. I measured a few i liked the look of and came up with this dimension. If I decide later i dont like it I can easly change it . I used the seat i will be using (at least the seat brand and style) to set the layback and left an inch for belts up holstery etc. I want to get down out of the wind a bit on this one. Today i took it off the jig and will put the jig away again. Meanwhile the Sr dragster looks on over the development of his baby brother. A few minutes ago i weighed it with the front end installed. The front end is not done but a large percentage of it is. Weight was according to my scales only 130 LBS. I am not sure that is right. When i get enough nerve i will weigh myself to see if they are working right but i didnt need that reminder in my life today. Don
In my senior dragster they are exactly parellel but I feel like I am sitting too high. Even though I dearly love that car and the fun it has brought me, that part never quite settled with me. I looked at how my pals sit in their REDs . They lay down quite a bit. Then I looked at my buddy building an old style Chassis Research rail from old plans , He showed me his seat location and we measured it. His head will actually be around 24 to 27 inches above the bottom frame rail. So Thursday we brought his seat up here and tried it on my chassis. With a 14 inch layback I will still be a bit taller but certainly not like before in the SR. I had some layback when i built the hemi jeep but not that much. I can sit there comfortably and will not have a cramp in my neck either so that is my thinking on this deal. I might be wrong but I want to try it. I realized when using the jag engine I needed to leave a section level in the middle or i would not get it and the supercharger in. I made the measurements and found i need at least 15 inches between the rails (I have 16) I asked on the BS thread for some measurement but got no help so i went looking and found a couple of rails wth a 10 inch distance between the rails in the engine area. i found REDs not all the different there either. I am now going to try dropping the motor in the pocket just to be sure. A 5.7 new hemi needs 16 to 17 inches between the rails to fit the very widest section of the bellhousing . Since the 5.7 and the early hemi have the same bolt pattern (A engine bolt pattern ) they are similar. I have an 5.7 right here in the shop and I believe it will fit in as long as the oil pan rail is just above the bottom rail. That is how it is in my senior dragster and is also how it was in the Hemi Jeep. I will have to roll the engine slightly on installation but once it is past the top rail it will be fine I believe although before i go any farther I need to make sure this is so. That is where i am at right now. One thing is for sure it sure is interesting. I never thought retirement would be so much fun. Don So why dont I just get a set of plans and copy them? Good question. I guess i really enjoy building this way. i also make violins as a hobby and threw away the pattern book after the first one. (now on # 8) After working to less than .001" for much of my life as an automotive machinist, the freedom of working this way is akin to being let of of prison. It works for me. Here is the amount of layback i built into the Hemi Jeep project
Because of the large boss at the oil filter which extends all the way to the head deck a 5.7 will not fit.The bellhousing end would but i forgot about that big oil filter casting on the pass side front. We will try the Jag six this afternoon i think if all goes well. I have everything just tacked so I can widen it up to 4 inches if necessary at the front without making any new parts save a crossbrace. As long as the Jag fits i am going to leave it as is. (cause that is what i built it for. ) Don
Hi Don.... Were watching you too!......................... good progress with the car fella, glad your going with the jaguar motor......
Thanks for the encouragement. It is a very interesting deal to me. I spent yesterday removing accesories from my motor for trial fitting. I still have to remove the oil cooler lines and rework them Don
It Fits! Minor interference with oil filler pipe but it bolts on and is easily modified. Oil filter clears (just). Trans dipstick pipe will need a minor bend but that should take about a minute. Supercharger set up fits as is. In case you didnt rrealize it, the 3.6 Jag is also a "Slant six" with 22 degrees lean. I will have a pair of slant six dragsters when it is done. Life is good! Don
A friend gave me an old posi unit for my favourite rear end today. (8 3/4 mopar) yeah A spool would be nice but I have this so it gets used. A bird in the hand beat two in the bush everytime.
What are you using for a seat? I come from more of a circle track background, full-containment seats, and have to say some of the fed driver's compartments I see don't impress me safetywise. Another thing I was thinking about as far as cage layback and whatnot. A few years ago I was talking w/a guy running a blown fed at a local track. He told me that when he first got it the previous owner told him to always make sure he had the back of his helmet tight to the cage at launch. He said about the third run he forgot and about knocked himself out. In my mind the proper layback and seat combination would be the one that puts your head the right position within the cage.
The Jalopy Journal
