metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

I have given up being political here, but you speak much truth, Unkl Ian.

 

So then you put a little more pressure into it and it flexes a little more. Pretty soon you have the new two piece frame. I tend to agree with the guy that said he only buys the stuff from HF that he can afford to throw away after the first use, and I hope I get done using it the first time. That said, yes there is some HF stuff in my tool box, but not much.

About the kids in China, I really don't give a shit about them (well I do, but there is nothing I can do about that.) What I really care about is the kids in the USA. I see factories closing and the jobs going over seas, that I care about. This shit wouldn't be happening, if we as a whole, wouldn't have been buying the cheapest crap we can find for all those years. These days its hard to even find things made in the USA, and unfortunately when we can find things, often the quality sucks. When manufacturers have to cut the prices to rock bottom, something has be cut to make up the difference. We need to vote with our dollars. Buy things made with the very best quality we can, reguardless of where it was made, and tell the manufacturers why you bought what you bought. When they get the message, I believe things will improve.

In the words of John Mellencamp: You have to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.
Gene

 

Thanks for running the calcs. It's been 20+ years since I've done mechanical design calcs. It was in ME3205 at U of MN with Prof Ogata -- great class and great prof.

That frame just looked a little more flexible than many I'd seen. And thanks for the link.

 

That was me, Brother.
"What I really care about is the kids in the USA. I see factories closing and the jobs going over seas, that I care about. This shit wouldn't be happening, if we as a whole, wouldn't have been buying the cheapest crap we can find for all those years."
Well said.
Nothing against other countries, but we really gotta look out for our own. Like Brent said, they only sell us this crap because we buy it. I'm guilty, too. Before I started building my car, I bought a shit-load of tools from HF. Most of it has turned out to be junk. Money that could have been put back into my neighbor's pocket, and his kid's college fund. I've been accused of being a bigot, but I'm not. I just don't want us to become a service provider, or have we already?
I guess I have done it again, but I have to rant once in a while. Now I can go back to being a nice guy.

 

We've been Sold Out by "our own".

 

without getting way of topic......it's a total ripple effect. the US has a stupid "bling" (can't believe i said that out loud) problem. everyone wants to look rich, have the most stuff, have a bigger house without having the funds or the means to pay for it (but still want it anyway). this inturn causes price gouging and cheap knock offs to be made. it also causes good companies to buckle and use cheaper products to keep up with the market. in everyones short sightedness jobs are leaveing never to return, the future is going to be interesting.....only so many salesman jobs to go around (because the product won't be made here). i know this is very simplified and there are many other things to weigh (material cost increase, wage increase.....).......but that said i try to always support my local stores (not chains) whenever possible (not too many mom and pop stores around here). i do price shop but on the same item (brand, model...) to make it fair to all involved.

i'm done rambling

 

i was pretty much thinking the same thing. sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture here. if we keep supporting these companies that use cheap labor and cheap materials from outside of the US then sooner or later none of us in the US will have jobs. i'm not gonna get into this whole debate but i think you should all REALY think about the big picture before you go buying anything from a foreign manufacturer or foriegn owned company. it's hard to avoid i know and i'm not saying i have'nt spent a few bucks at HF in the past but the more i learn about the outsourcing of America's jobs the more i get scared for the future of this country....

anyways. i'd be real concerned about the quality for that price too. it's REAL tempting to buy one of these myself but i think i'll hold out for something made in America... or at least i'll make it myself here in America ....

 

Have to Back up John & Uncle Ian 100% on this.

I know all about - low tool budgets - EVERYTHING costing to much & not having enough money to go around for what I want to build.

These are all reasons to buy quality tools & ( BUILD YOUR OWN ).

Dont spend your hard earn'd dough on shit you will toss in the garbage in 3 months.

Do you want a piece of equipment that you will acually be able to make parts with ?

Or just a powdercoated ( looks the part ) sitting in your garage..?

If the price seems to good to be true, it's just junk dude.

You can be part of the problem or part of the solution.

 

As with alot of things on HAMB here lately it's turned into a pissing match. has anyone tried the tool yet to see if it works ?

 

Are you kidding me? There's no reason to get crazy here. The thread is about the machine and if it will work properly or not. Also, at this point, its all speculation or assumptions to others. No one hasn't even used the thing yet.

Apparently you have not read any of my posts.

Just because HF, China or "what-ever-cheap-by-child-slavery" manufacture makes it automatically junk?

Sorry, I cant run with that. I have a large mix of HF tools and top name brand stuff; both equally have assisted in quality work. Most of which were used during the HAMB Chop '06. I didnt see anyone refuse a tool because it was HF material.

I have a HF "Beverly Shear". It was a bit wobbly at first. I adjusted/corrected it, and it works (IMHO) just as good as an actual Beverly Shear (I have used both). I think those who used it would agree too. I can cut the same circles w/ each. Is there a difference in function...No. Did I have to adjust?...Yes. Does it mean my work sucks? No, I adapted and overcame.

Sure, if the wheel rolls out "garbage," why couldn't it be "adjusted" to get it to function almost as good or equally as the high dollar units.

A thread was done in the past on a "home made" English wheel with $25 worth of parts; a bearing, Caster wheel, etc. It didnt get near close, if any, the criticism this one is getting. But because HF is all over it automatically makes it crap? I dont get it.

From what Im reading, Since my Shoebox was chopped using low budget HF air tools, HF beverly shear, HF grinding tools, disks and tape measures, It would be considered off and the craftsmanship of it is poor then? I guess im F*ck'd.

I will buy it, waste my money and report my loss when im done.

 

ME TOO.... I buy 80% of my tools there. I built my garage with their 100.00 framing nailer and roofed the garage with their 80.00 roofing nailer. For what I do there is nothing wrong with there shit. I roofed 3 buildings with that nailer, it took a spill off my buddies garage, after some headed conv. with their "OLD" warr company, I got a new one.

When their grinders are on sale for 9.99 I buy two at a time.....

 

"I have to say I find this whole thread entirely fascinating. It turned from cheap english wheel at HF to a moral stand against wal-mart and harbor freight. The working conditions are deplorable for most of these people who make the stuff in foreing countries, but what do you think would happen if these companies did nt manufacture stuff there? Do you think that there lives would improve? I think the opposite would happen they would have no jobs, and would have even less to survive on. It is a much deeper topic than overseas stuff is shit cause kids make it."

I was waiting for this to pop up. It always does. If you want to ignore the plight of people who exist in misery so that we can buy cheap crap we don't need at an ever expanding rate to fill up our storage units with stuff we will never use (only a slight exageration), that's one thing....but suggesting that people would suffer more if we paid attention to their plight is preposterous. If the people in this country really knew what was happening in a viceral way.... by say... spending 1000th the time they do on sports statistics, caring about the latest local tragedy that CNN or Fox rams down our throats for weeks on end, or whether or not someone's titty was on TV screens for a split second ...I'm confident we would do something about it. We are not cruel, just indifferent in our ignorance.

The same argument was made about slavery, child labor, and virtual slave labor of mine workers etc in this country.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

 

In my opinion quality tools do not make the quality car, it's the operator.
To a middleclass hobbyist like me, Tools are tools. I have a lot of HF tools and have an equal amount of Craftsman/Mac tools. Like Chopped50 said on the previous thread if you clean it, service it and take care of it it works just fine. Fine tuning tools where it needs it is ok too. why the hell not?

Inginuity for less is key, especially for someone like me where diapers and other expenses take precidence.

 

your a wise man John. i did'nt mean for my post to go to the political, i realy did'nt it. it just happened. i do buy stuff from HF but i'm torn between my relative poorness and need for tools and my moral obligation to support the American worker. it's a tough spot and i totaly understand when people do buy this stuff. this is'nt the place to debate it though. sorry.

 

Take a look at the picture.



1-The upper and lower yokes are welded together.
So if the alignment isn't perfect,they can't be adjusted.
Mine bolts together,and bolts to the frame.
More time and money,very easy to adjust.

2-The wheels are only 2" wide.Wider would be better.
I made mine 3" wide,to support the panel better.
More steel costs more money.I know people with
6" wide upper wheels,and they love them.

3-The frame is NOT stiff enough.For the same throat and load,
it will have over double the deflection,compared to mine.
And mine isn't super stiff.

4-The double sealed ball bearings for my wheels cost alot more
than the retail price of these lower anvils,and I didn't buy
the most expensive bearings.So what are these guys using
for bearings ? Bronze bushings? Plastic ? Maybe just a plain hole drilled through ?

That's 4,should I continue ?
------
Kerry Pinkerton ordered one,it will be interesting to read his impressions.

And if I get a chance,I'll stop by Horrible Freight this weekend
in Detroit.Hopefully they will have one of these "master pieces"
on display.

 

5 pages and not one person who has actually used this tool or even seen it in person.......

 

You mean you didn't buy the Body Hammer set
from Horrible Freight,and "improve" them ?

So What if the finish is crap,all the handle are loose,
and the materials are too soft.

10 hammers for $10 is a good deal.

 

My "obvious" inexperience in leu of others on this board tells me that I need to keep my mouth shut.

Point taken, Thanks.

Hey Brent, when I eat that piece of shit, Ill tell you what it taste like.

 

Exactly - the dies cost that much so are they worth anything that you could improve this. Ian's experience is always welcome and insightful for some of us less experienced - you just have to read the whole thread to get it today.
Even the thread on Metalshapers has not come up with a solution but has the same debate.

 

ANYONE BOUGHT AND TRIED THIS F**KER!!!! STAY ON POINT DAMN IT.
A couple people have mentioned making a purchase, what happend? Until they get it and try it, or if someone has tried one, I say this thread should end. This is bull shit and not worth taking up space, and I only skimmed most of it!

They say "opinions are like belly buttons everyone has one", right! Well how often do you see people's belly buttons? Lets follow the example.

-Panelrodder

 

Don't be so hard on yourself; we all have opinions, right or wrong. This is just like talking about religion or politics.

 

I bought it, should be at my house in a few days. Cant wait. Yes, im excited.

I do have a project that will require its use. Ill post what I do for everyone to see.

 

I also ordered it but only two days ago. They said 10 to 14 days for delivery.

 

Don't know much about english wheels and probably never will. One thing I do know is that the quality of tools coming from overseas has improved over the past offerings. The reason you ask??? One word....OUTSOURCING. You see alot of the companies here that make tools for some of our favorite manufacturers sent their dies & some supervisory personnel to China,India, Mexico the list goes on and closed there facilities here to take advantage of the cheap labor in a developing nation. I am not in no way endorsing the HF product or any other imported or domestic product here I am just tryiing to explain what is going on. Do I buy from HF...sure I do...do I like it, absolutely not.

 

I would bet a boardertown mexican could work that thing pretty good! CHIT MAN, NO PROBLEM!!!

 

I ordered one today.The reasons I ordered it are pretty simple. No way I can ever afford a $2000 english wheel, this one I can afford. If it takes some work to make it work that's fine with me, I'm confident that I have the ability to fix it. I don't expect the same quality as a more expensive tool, but just the frame is worth the price to me. I'll let you know how it works once I have a chance to use it a little.

 

Before you decide to fix it, look at the wheels (upper and lower) and maybe check the runout with a dial indicator. If they run true(or nearly true), then it would be okay to beef up the frame if needed. If they don't, then you could have problems beefing the frame. Whimpy frames don't always work bad, just depends what material you are wheeling.

 

I have to say the throatless shears are a total bargain at literally 1/10 the price of Beverly Shears. I got spoiled by Beverly throatless shears years ago and always wanted a set until I fould out how much they go for. Even worse when I found that they were the only producers of throatless bench shears. When I came across the HF ones about 2 or 3 years ago I was totally excited. I've had them for a bit now and I love them!!! Highly recommended!!! If you've never cut sheetmetal with shears like these you don't know what you're missing...

 

Do you have any experience using a decent wheel to compare it to ?

How many people here have actually used a decent English Wheel ?

 

Exactly my point.If you never used a decent one,
and/or hadn't done any research,you might not
have realized how bad your "junk" one was.

I did a LOT of research,took a hands on weekend seminar
with a couple local panel beaters(one of them trained in England),
and used at least 4 completely different machines(cast iron frame,welded simple C frame,fabricated truss frame) before designing and building the two English Wheels I've made so far.
One is 24" throat,the other is 48".Completely different frames.
Both work VERY well.

My next design will be a small benchtop English Wheel,probably an 18" throat,much lighter and a LOT stiffer than any other benchtop wheel on the market.The only "specialized" machining will be in making the lower anvils,everything else will be straight forward.

It's not Rocket Science,but you have to cover the basics.