marvel mystery oil for flatheads how often to use for preventive maintenance

According to the Corvair Flat Tappet Oil article, phosphorus levels over 1400 ppm lead to increased engine wear and deposits. Phosphorus levels over 2000 ppm lead to camshaft spalling.

ZDDPlus has an article entitled Tech Brief #2 that seems to indicate that 1200 ppm of phosphorus is sufficient to protect flat tappet valve trains.

If you add ZDDP to an engine oil, are you calculating the correct amount that brings the overall concentration of phosphorus to 1200 ppm or do you just dump it in and hope for the best?

Regarding Lucas Oil Stabilizer (if that's what you were referring to), a BITOG study (The Story With Additives) seems to show that it causes air entrainment.

I think it's better to use a good oil with enough antiwear and detergency rather than to formulate your own additive pack. Or do you think you can do a better job than an oil company?

 

I understand the rationale behind adding MMO to the gas for top oil. I understand adding it to the crankcase 'back in the day' when detergent oils were not used and it was common for engines to sludge up. I do not understand the rationale of adding it to the crankcase when modern detergent oils are in use. Can someone explain why you would want to do this? Or does everyone agree that adding MMO regularly to the crankcase nowadays makes no sense?

BTW, I understand that you could possibly add it in special circumstances, like if you are trying to free stuck rings from the motor being in storage. I am talking about regularly adding it.

 

my dad always said it was a MYSTERY.....
Bill

 

Plym49 exactly,what i was getting at do you need it as a part of your regular fluid treatments for the car or when something like stuck rings occurs? Is it preventative maintenance or a specialized treatment for something going wrong?

 

I think you're on the right track.

In the gas, I can see it as preventative - for example, for an older engine that does not have hardened valve seats, or one that is infrequently used where you want to insure against a stuck valve from storage.

In the oil, if you are using modern oils, I see it only as a specialized treatment. As in the types of things you try before you resign yourself to the fact that it all has to come apart.

 

Yes, it's worth it to add to your tank. By doing so you are using it as a top oil. It will provide lubrication to the valve train that is lacking in todays fuels now that tetra-ethyl lead is no longer used. That's what top oil was about back in the day, to add lubrication for the valves so cheaper unleaded fuels could be used...
If you're concerned about reduced ZDDP in the motor oil, check out oils formulated for diesel engines. Motorcycle guys are using Rotella 15w40 and Delvac for this reason and are having good results.

 

This is an opinion pole...and I always seem to find one. I have used it with success in used engines of unknown origin to free up rings that were frozen for some reason. Heavy smoke by most peoples standards was basically eliminated after a few drives. It's my opinion that it cleaned the engine from harmful deposits and gums.

I would not personally use it in a fresh engine only because I can control the harmful deposits with regular oil changes. I doubt that it would hurt anything but I don't think it's necessary.

I think it got it's cult following more for restoring life to an old poorly maintained engine than preventing wear that can't be prevented with proper maintenance. It's my bet that anyone that cared enough to add MMO to their engine regularly probably changed their oil regularly too. I think the later has as much affect on engine life as the former.

Our collector cars get princely treatment when compared to their original use. JMO

 

I read somewhere that in the early days oil wells used to have MMoil available in drum barrels right next to the drip gas.

 

Wow - I've never heard that before - you got a source for that tidbit? I'm not saying it's not true, but I try to stay up on the oil stuff as best I can & this is first I've heard this throughout the hullabaloo over ZDDP the past several years...

1600-1800 is actually very high. SG/SJ oil was only 1200-1400 before the downgrade to SL/SM current 800-1200.

The diesel CJ stuff of the past couple years is lower than it was, but still higher than most of the SL/SM stuff, if only slightly. As mentioned, it has higher detergent & disbursement additives - good for flatheads - especially those w/o PCV and filter.

I wouldn't worry about ZDDP in a flathead (maybe for initial break-in of new cam/lifters, but that's probably just paranoia on my part) because the valve spring pressures are so low it's almost a non-factor. A bigger concern is cheap, imported lifters that are not the correct hardness that are now available for the flathead...buyer beware.

Now THAT I agree with!

As for MMO - I've used it in the past in my gas, but I don't know that I'd bother putting it in my oil...

 

How true..now thats some funny shit right there...

 

I wouldn't worry about ZDDP in a flathead (maybe for initial break-in of new cam/lifters, but that's probably just paranoia on my part) because the valve spring pressures are so low it's almost a non-factor.

Now THAT I agree with!

I'm really glad you finally said it Ernie.

 

No shit... I can put it in my engine too? Right on!!

 

That's why you haven't got any hair.

A little dab LL do ya.

 

Way back when,( in the fifties) my uncles drove Olds '88's, and my dad had a POS 53 Dodge "Red Ram", they all had oilers installed to meter MMO, supposedly for longer valve life? I used it on my girl friend in the back seat of my 48 Plymouth when we were in high school. She said it burned.

 

Not to bring an old thread back to life but I've got one of the Ampco top cylinder lubricators that work on a vacuum plate, I figure it's working pretty well but if you turn the mix screw more than about a quarter turn you end up smoking like crazy. I went to a show about an hour from home once and had my hood open to show off and someone must've turned my knob up all the way cause half way home all I could smell was spearmint and couldn't see through the fog behind me.