I really want to build a hydraulic assist for my Pro-Tools 105 bender. I done some searching, and ive found some good info, but Id like to do the whole setup for less than $300. I dont mind searching for used pumps, and other stuff, but id like to see what some others have done. No need to reinvent the wheel here, so show me what youve done. Did someone gut an eletric log splitter and uses the parts?? Thanks
I have one of the JD2 benders and have thought several times about putting some power in it. I can't seem to come up with anything that doesn't double the size and weight.I have to unbolt it and store when not using due to a space problem so I will be watching to see what comes up.Best 0f luck
Use a 12 volt pump from a snow plow, I'm going to use one of the rams off my old Meyers plow and the pump to build mine. I watched J2 video and the ram looks just like the one I have.
Here's a good thread on a rockcrawling site, this guy added hydro to his tube bender for $100! http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=7319 This specific post has all the #'s, prices & parts for copying the idea, about $250- http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showpost.php?p=86792&postcount=25
I used to work at a welding and fab shop. We originally had one of those benders that you had to manually jack with a bottle jack - not sure what brand. We used it alot to make pipe racks for trucks and railings for stairs. We later hooked up a bottle jack that was air actuated - from Grainger I think. Worked real good after we got a feel for it.
Yeah, I'm a member. I'll see what I can do about getting the pics on here. *EDIT* The pics are no longer on the forum, they were lost during some software changes. Sorry!
Check this link out: http://www.mindspring.com/~jayk5/bender/ Prolly the best step by step How-to hydro a bender out there. Including part numbers. I did my PT105 about 2 years ago. And didn't even get below $300 and my brother in law owns and runs a Hydraulic Shop in Kansas City and hooked me up with everything. You will kick yourself for ever using the clicky-clicky again!!!! EDIT: I know a guy that got a wet setup off a wrecked truck that had a Liftgate on it. He ended up running an inverter and making his work, but its slow.
Kinda' semi-on-topic question: Is there anyone who has used both the JD2 and Pro-Tools benders? I'm thinking about buying just the dies, and fabbing the rest (a money thing); choice of brand is TBD. -bill
What ever you do just use a lot of common sense and BE CAREFUL!!! I can't express that strong enough. Built up hydraulic pressure will outright fuckin kill you when it lets loose. Maybe this warning isn't totally needed but worth keeping in mind. The hydro bender we have at work is pretty heavy and for good reason. Everything is 3/8 thick or better. Seeing the big bitch strain here n there when we bend moly is a little un-nerving at times. Think it through bros, think it through. And good luck with it. Ok, think about a foot operated air over hydro get up. Keep your eyes open for a body shop goin outta biz. Think about porta-power cylinders, especially the ones with the quick change fittings. Does any of this give you guys ideas? And yes it's gotta be a porta-power ram of pretty decent duty...10ton would probably get it. Not uncommon.
Here's mine. One problem is, you need about a 19" to 22" stroke to make 180 degree bends, the problem comes in in finding a slim/small cylinder with that kind of stroke....you can get them , but they're super high because they're specialized. Maybe someone will have better luck than me but I kept coming up with $200.00-$400.00 on the small diameter ones. The next problem is it takes a lot of fast pumpin volume to make a large bore one run fast. Mine runs just a little slower than I'd like it, so I'm going to change it soon. I already have a new 2 stage pump. The key is the 2 stage pump, it'll run faster up to where it starts bending, when it meets the resistance it switches an unloader valve inside and goes into the slow mode.....then when you get the bend done you don't have to wait for the thing to run back to the park position at the slow speed, it goes back fast at the fast speed to the park position to start your next bend. The pump is a Barnes all in one deal, with the pump and tank all together, it came off a Weatherhead crimping machine. It wasn't made for circulation but a hyrdo shop told me I could just pop a hole in the tank and weld a bung in there below oil level (to avoid foaming) to dump back into, I did that and it works fine. It's just a little slow for me. Not too slow to use, but I bent exhaust pipe for years on a Huth bender and was kind of used to how they run so I'm going to make it run at least that fast. Which would only be about 30% faster, less than 50% faster for sure. Someone not used to bending pipe & tubing would probably be better off with it running this speed actually since it's reallly easy to overbend. Then you have to get your indicator set up right, and calculate & get a feel for the springback. Anyway, I was advised & got the Barnes 2 stage 13.6gph pump from Northern (1053-1701) Then get an electric motor and connect it with Lovejoy couplers (3011-1701). Use the same logsplitter detent valve I have here (Northern 2020-1701). I'll post an update after I revise the system. One other thing, you need to keep the valve very near the actual bender mechanism because you have to hold the tubing with one hand while you bump the lever to get pressure on the tubing to get it into place, you actually stand right in front of the degree wheel holding the tubing with your left hand and working the lever with your right.....if you don't set it up like this it'll be very awkward and you'll fight getting things lined up and seeing where you're positioning the tubing in the dies. As far as making the rest and just buying the dies, I wouldn't suggest it. Once you see how it all lines up and the positioning of the dies and how they need to be held level, and the relation they have to each other, it's going to be WAY better to buy this already all figured out and done for only 280.00. Or that's what mine was. If you look, those holes are drilled in all different positions and angles to make the shoe follow the die at just the right spacing to bend and let the tubing slide. If you had someones to blueprint and copy exactly that'd be different. You could just buy one, copy it then sell it as new on ebay, hell the used ones bring as much as they do new, I've seen them pay $500.00 for a used one with one set of dies. The JD2 and Pro dies are different......Pro Tools & JD2 will make the dies for either machine, just tell them which one you have, but they aren't interchangable. .
Like Highlander said air over hydraulic is a good choice, 10,000 PSI and has a foot pedal. Do a ebay search for Enerpac. Here's what it looks like.
A guy I know did that, he bought some plans & some dies then started fabbing his own hydro bender. Looks like he's just over a Grand into it. He lists the parts & pieces in this thread- http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=29777
That bender is next to useless. He's holding the shoe still and rotating the die, that's exactly backwards....the round die stays staionary and the shoe is what follows the round die and slides on the tubing. The way he has it you're severly limited to making another close bend, let alone one at a right angle to the first one. You can't do it this way with these dies, because your round die is the holder for the end of the tubing....see the strap at the top ? , that has to stay in there to drag the tubing thru.....if you take that holder strap off it renders the bender useless as theres nothing to hold the tubing to pull it over the shoe die....you can't do anything but bends that are all on the same plane to each other the way he made this thing. If you had to make any sort of angluar bend bent to any angle other than the first one, (right after the one he's got made there), you'd have to take the holder strap off to let the tubing rotate, turn the tubing , then you'd have nothing holding the tubing to pull it thru, which make the whole bender inoperable right there, you're done. You couldn't even flip that piece of tubing over to make another bend 180 degrees from it, there'd be nothing to hold the free end of the tubing , the round die would just be sliding doing a burnout on the tubing LOL. and it'd crash your freshly bent end into the machine even if you tried to flip it around to do it from the other end. And/or your other end would be hitting the ground if it was longer. That bender is severely misengineered for doing anything other than simply putting one bend in one straight piece of tubing. If you sent these pics to JD2 and Pro-Tools they'd say "how you gonna make any bends other than flat squares & circles ? You've got zero rotation ability. Not to mention, on that bend he has there, he has to start out with the round die down and the holder strap at the bottom, then run it out as far as he can, then pull the pin, run the cylinder back and and choke up on the round die again, then do this at least 4 times just to make the bend he has......when if you held the round die stationary like they're designed and the shoe was the moveable piece, you'd just run the bender that far and it would make the 180 bend in one fell swoop. I can hardly believe someone even built this thing. Not only that, but if you're going to be doing duplicate bends like identicle pieces for custom center x-members in hot rod & 32-34 frames, or double roll bar hoops, you've got no degree wheel , no way to know where you stopped or start again, and no way to stand and watch it even if you had one. You be constantly backing off and letting it spring back then trying to hold your first piece up to it and eyeball if you had it right, then re-uptaking the slack and trying to put just a hair more bend in it, but you wouldn't have a reference point of where you stopped the first time. With the hydraulics you can't "feel" the resistance like if you were using the bender manually....all you can see is where the dies contact the tubing, then you have to wild-ass guess if you actually put another degree or 2 or 15,etc. into it. You need to be able to just go 1 or 2 more degrees a lot of times and without a degree wheel to know where you stopped to calculate the springback you're going to screw up a lot of tubing. When you're trying to fit up tubing 2 & 3 degrees is a ton of misfitting. Even two pieces you lay on top of each other that are 1 degree off are clearly visible. There's no way to duplicate multiple pieces exactly with that deal except for trial and error. I guess if you just want to "bend tubing" and walk back and forth to the machine and pull the pins, take the shoe out, take the tubing out, go try it, then when it doesn't fit go put it all back in, crank it all the way back to 120 degrees, then try and put 5 more degrees into it, and do this about 10 or 20 times on each bend, it'll do the job. Anyone who's used on of these knows you don't just snatch the pipe out then slap it back in and bump it a little more, you have the run it back so far then pull the pin and take the shoe out just to snake your bent tubing out of it, you sure as the hell don't want to have to do this any more than you have to. That thing is a crazy guessing game. The size of the tank & plumbing ? mine works perfect with only 1/2 to 3/4 gal of fluid. $1000.00 ? I've got a $100.00 cyl., $80.00 valve, $60.00 used ebay pump assy., $30.00 in hose, $30.00 in fittings, $20.00 electrical (110V), some used box tubing, wheels and bolts and it will bend anything they make the dies for. There's a reason the all the professional benders (RMD,etc) and exhaust tubing machines (Pearson, Huth, etc.) all bend on the horizontal plane. It's what's right, and what works.
It 'aint mine! The plans are from http://www.gottrikes.com/ The guy that built it is happy, just thought I'd pass along since the idea of building a hydro bender was brought up. I'm still yanking on the handle to make bends & it works for me.
I know, it wasn't directed at you. I just didn't want anyone to get started on this guys road. That thing is way off in left field in many ways. Trust me, you're way farther ahead and your bender is still able to do what it was designed to do, doing it manually.
McQueen, You are right about the verticle bender, pretty clumbsy. BUT I really wanted to comment on the plumbing on your bender, DON'T use galvanized pipe fittings! They are for water at 60 psi not hydraulic oil at 2000. They won't blow up but they will split and piss oil everywhere!!! Rex
Thanks. I knew someone would probably catch it. Thing is, that's the return, there's no pressure on the tank side. It's just a dump back into the oil reservoir. Notice that line just goes back into the cheap stamped steel tank that comes stock on the pump. That's why I initially put a gauge on it, it won't even move it. You can even leave the filler cap off when it's running. You could actually use any rubber hose and just hose clamps on that side. Good eye though .
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