Register now to get rid of these ads!

HEMI Tech - Cooling Systems

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by scootermcrad, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Another HAMBer just sent me a link to some information regarding thermostat housings and I realized that we really need a section in the Hemi Tech Index the simply covers Early Hemi cooling systems as a whole.

    - Water pump interchangability
    - Water pump conversions
    - thermostats and thermostat housings
    - radiators and related
    - water cross-overs
    - steam ports and other misc. info pertaining to intake manifolds
    - marine type cooling systems
    - Other misc. cooling system information and components

    There are already a couple Indexed threads pertaining to pump adaptations and the likes. I will move them to this thread.

    "Rebuild or replace?"
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116308&highlight=hemi tech

    "SBC adaptation"
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116147&highlight=hemi tech

    Okay, get it going! I will be adding this to the Hemi Tech Index,
     
  2. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  3. 31Vicky with a hemi
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 12,684

    31Vicky with a hemi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't have a lot to add here, but maybe get this started with some water crossover options.

    Here's my set up, and I really hate it on several levels.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I know its been done like this before but I just don't like it. The heads are drilled and tapped for pipe thread. A pipe to AN fitting. Ok I don't like the material thickness of the head where its threaded, kinda thin for pipe threads. Don't want the AN 90s going into them up front.

    Leaves a ugly remote t stat like this hanging there some place.

    [​IMG]

    This one is a lot slickery and though about re-designing and fabing on on its general function so that it looks more vintage. There's two threaded holes on the backside for water inlet and a tstat in there.

    [​IMG]

    Then there's a few others like this that could be reworked to be not so ugly.

    [​IMG]

    One of the ideas I had was to turn my heads around and run the AN fittings and crossover/outlet at the rear by the fire wall and incorporate some heater core hoses into that. Not sure how that will flow to the heater, probably not so good. That solves the visual upfront but i still need a upper radiator hose and t stat.

    Mr Waters had some nice straight or 90* plates that perfomed the same function as those pipe fittings i have, only better. Eliminated the 90* AN fitting and bolted to the head, the head that you had milled flat and drilled five holes in, 4 tapped for bolts and one for water. I'll see if I can find the pic. EDIT. they are here in post #7 and also a 354 truck hemi head cooling thread. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=422258


    The other thing I don't like is since there's no water fills and that hole is about mid head, there will be trapped air issues. With the crossover around back, and heater core hoses.,that could be easily remedied.

    Thought about mounting that t stat and radiator hose at the firewall and running the hose underneath back to a custom radiator with in and out both on the bottom.

    Another idea I had was to use a two small tstats (like from a liquiid cooled motorcycle) mounted directly on each head and run two hoses to the top radiator tank. That could be really done nice. But them damn housings off of a jap MC would be right there - front and center.

    That lead to ideas of reverse flow cooling with an inline t stat.

    Looking for some ideas.

    Ps. I really want to remove that boss of the truck heads, can I do it ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2012
  4. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Great info!! That's the type of stuff we want in this thread. You even included pictures! (two thumbs up and 5 stars) :D:D

    I TOO would love to see more ideas for plumbing truck/industrial heads. There are a lot of these heads floating around and it's a great subject. Maybe someone can start a specific thread dedicated to the task and I'll link it up here.

    As for those bosses on the heads... I suspect they could be removed, but I honestly have no real information that says one way or the other. I have some truck heads like that as well. Always wondered. Maybe if someone has a cracked head they can do some head disection in this area to see material thicknesses, port locations, etc.
     
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,336

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    This is a 1733461 truck head. As you can see, you could take water from just about anywhere on the ends. The same goes for Desoto heads, which is the last picture.
    I would advise anyone drilling and tapping the ends for direct fittings to use caution, as the casting is only about 3/16" thick.
    As you can see in the pictures posted above, things would have been so much easier if Chrysler had cast the flat pads and L bosses in the opposite location on the end of the head. :mad:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 6, 2012
  6. 31Vicky with a hemi
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 12,684

    31Vicky with a hemi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    My point about it being too thin.

    Do you have that water take off in 90* still ?

    Any input on removing that boss off of the head ? Purely aesthetic reasonimg on my end.
     
  7. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That is BAD ASS information right there! I never thought of doing it that way! Much safer for the head construction than drilling and tapping. You don't have to worry about a cooling line putting lateral stress on a fitting that could crack the thin wall.

    And now I know I have some heads that I may one day use! Fantastic!

    Thanks for posting those pictures!

    This thread is shaping up pretty well already. Fantastic!
     
  8. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    How about a visual comparison of water pumps including marine, Industrial, and any others. Any volunteers?
     
  9. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,336

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    There is no reason that the bosses cannot be removed. Note however that some heads have a bolt on the end that goes into the water jacket. Just use a set screw to replace it.

    I will be doing some adapters in 90* fairly soon.
     
  10. 31Vicky with a hemi
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 12,684

    31Vicky with a hemi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks for the info.
     
  11. 31Vicky with a hemi
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 12,684

    31Vicky with a hemi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    How about some traction here.
    Hope my odd ball stuff didn't steer the thread away from all the other possible info.

    I noticed there are brand new hemi water pumps for sale on the " ? Bay" for about 80.00
     
  12. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 5,093

    73RR
    Member


    IIRC, those are 392 only, pumps. Haven't heard of anyone actually buying/using one so cannot comment on quality and such.
    We still can rebuild just about any water pump that Detroit made...

    .
     
  13. Godspeed
    Joined: Sep 5, 2005
    Posts: 332

    Godspeed
    Member

    Ok, I know this is a little crazy, but I am trying to use an original transmission Cooler (trans cooler) that is mounted to the pump of an original 1956 354 Hemi (Imperial engine).
    * does anyone know if the top cooler line or bottom cooler line is the inlet? (I would like to back flush it with the trans cooler flush in a can).
    * Does anyone here actually still use one on their car? Any horror stories, like trans fluid mixing with coolant? I have taken mine to a local radiator shop for cleaning and pressure testing, but I am a little afraid of debris going back to the bearings of the 727.
    * Does anyone know of a filter that can be put in line to catch the stuff that may come out of the trans cooler?
     
  14. I don't have any together anymore to confirm, but I do know that heat exchangers typically have the flows in "opposite directions" to maximize heat transfer. That means the trans fluid would enter the upper and exit the lower fitting. I could be wrong though.

    There probably are horror stories, but keep in mind that early Chrysler stuff was very well engineered. You can pressure test your parts if you are concerned.

    Chrysler used to use a filter on the early torqueflite cooler return line, but stopped that in the early 1960's. If you do add a filter, make 250% sure it has a very low pressure differential, otherwise you could be creating more trouble than you are preventing (reduction in lube oil flow).
     
  15. Brand Apart
    Joined: Jan 22, 2011
    Posts: 159

    Brand Apart
    Member
    from Atlanta

    I think I just spent a bunch of money on the wrong heads!!!

    So I bought a 354 project that somebody else gave up on, It came with a lot of Hot heads parts: timing cover, oil filter adapter and water crossover.

    I know I checked the casting#'s (block) and found it was a car engine.

    My intention is to make this a supercharged engine and had a great machine shop do everything to the block, balance the crank, used forged pistons, h-beam rods, roller cam etc, etc.

    I had not purchased the Intake manifold yet cause I've been trying to decide on the hot heads or wieand. Most likley going with wieand due to height, and this is not for a race application where every single horse is critical.

    After asembling the engine put the water crossover/ t-stat housing on the heads, but what do I do to seal up the ports in the rear of the heads? and also the machine shop just told me there are coolant ports in the heads that clearly take coolant to and from the intake manifold.!!

    The info I can find says Chrysler Hemi intakes are all dry. Similar to b/rb motors which I have built before. And it appears to be that way in the pictures.

    Did I get: truck, industrial or marine or Desoto heads? Maybe I only checked the block casting #'s(it's been a year) but I swear I checked heads too.

    Did I waste my $ on: new valves, seats, springs machining etc.??

    What do I have? what do I need? Now I'm wondering if I've even got the right head gaskets, and can use a supercharger intake. Ofcourse I went with a lower compression ratio as I planned on supercharging all along and I even have a 6-71 I already purchased so changing plans is going to waste a ton of $.

    Hemi Guru's please help!!!
     
  16. 31Vicky with a hemi
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 12,684

    31Vicky with a hemi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Pictures of your heads as well as the casting #s will get everybody going in the direction of helping you. Try the hemi index and post your question in the heads section.
    Later manifolds are dry, earlier manifolds are not.
     
  17. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,318

    George
    Member

    All of the heads have openings to the intake surface, the front ones lead to passages on the wet intakes & are sealed off in the rear, & sealed off front & rear on dry intakes. Block off plates for the 4rear end openings are available from Hot Heads & OEM ones show up on EBay. As was said, get to reading the Hemi Tech Index.
     
  18. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,336

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    Is this what you are looking for? If so, email me. Despite the misconception, there are others of us who sell early hemi parts.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 5,093

    73RR
    Member

    As to BrandApart's issues with the heads, you only need the intake gasket to seal the rail against the blower manifold since you want neither exhaust gas or water to pass so it really doesn't matter which head you have to start with.
    And yeah, some pics would be helpful.


    ...shocking, just shocking.....:eek::eek:

    .
     
  20. Brand Apart
    Joined: Jan 22, 2011
    Posts: 159

    Brand Apart
    Member
    from Atlanta

    Thanks much for the advice, I would have posted pic's but for 2 things.

    1. I have not yet figured out how to do that. (strange It's easy to put them in your own profile)

    2. The engine is still in the machine shop, It's done but when I went buy the other day to see it I did not have space in my truck to get it nor the truckload of cash required. I'm picking it up Tuesday but knew if I did not get some answers before then sleeping was gonna be tough.

    I'd love to support some of the Hamb guys who have given me advivce. at the moment I need those block off plates and a supercharger intake manifold. In the future after I get the funds: Flywheel, adapter and manual trans. Problem is I've got as much as I wanted to spend on the entire truck in the Engine so I've got to start saving my pennies again.
     
  21. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 5,093

    73RR
    Member

    Posting pics is relatively, Hell, even I can do it and I'm a self professed techno-tard...:p

    When you are in the 'post reply' box, scroll down a wee bit and look for the 'manage attachments' tab. from there you can select pics from your desktop's doc folder. The pics will show as thumbnails. If you need to post pics within the reply then you need something like Photobucket.We'll cover that if needed.

    If you can't afford to buy the block-off plates :confused: then you can easily make them if you have some basic tooling.
    There are plenty of blower manifolds floating around so stop stressing on that; start searching and be ready to spend $300-$400.

    It sounds like the engine might be in limbo awhile so be sure you have dry storage and plenty of WD-40 or something similar. Lubriplate 'chain and cable fluid' clings well to parts. Even here in the desert I use it on long term storage of fresh iron.

    .
     
  22. EARLYHEMIBILL
    Joined: Apr 7, 2008
    Posts: 462

    EARLYHEMIBILL
    Member
    from ?

    I'm gonna try something on my 330. Desotos are notorious for cracking heads and I'm convinced it's caused by a disfunctional coolant system. My next motor will have reverse flow cooling. Here's a timing cover I made that takes a 318 water pump. It still needs machined. I already have a finished one on my 341. Instead of putting a standard water pump on it, I will add a 3/8" aluminum plate across the pump area extending up above the water pump gaskets by about 4" or so. The plate will block off the original pump location completely. Above the original pump will be an electric pump which will flow coolant through hoses going directly to the water ports on the manifold. If it's a Hilborn I will add 4 hoses. On a stock intake there will be 2 hoses going to the coolant ports on the back of the intake where the temp sensors would go. Down below on the timinmg cover is a pair of ears that cover 2 water ports near the bottom of the block. I will weld a bung on each of the ears for coolant outflow. From there hoses will take coolant to a thermost and then to the top of the radiator. I think it will work, or at least I'm gonna give it a shot.
     

    Attached Files:

  23. 31Vicky with a hemi
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 12,684

    31Vicky with a hemi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you reverse flow the coolant-

    The coolant passages between head and block seem large enough, but the head gaskets have a much smaller hole. That small hole is a restriction to coolant flow.

    How would you handle that restriction ?
    Would not reducing the restrictions provide better head cooling in a conventional cooling system?
     
  24. EARLYHEMIBILL
    Joined: Apr 7, 2008
    Posts: 462

    EARLYHEMIBILL
    Member
    from ?

    On the gaskets I have the coolant holes are at least 1" in diameter so it shouldn't be an issue. There are no baffles in the block to force water through the block in an even manner. When water goes in the front, there is no guarantee that it will go all the way to the back and then come back up front again to the outlets in the intake between the front 2 ports on the intake. My system will make sure that water will enter at the back and then come forward to the outlet at the front of the block down below. The only thing I can see is that in the back, nothing is sure except at some point the water can boil causing hot spots in the heads. Here in Tucson, it doesn't take much too overheat. Temps 10" above the street can run 140 degrees or more on a calm day.
     
  25. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,547

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    Ran my blown Hemi real hard to Louisville this past summer 400 miles, 90deg. plus. no problems, BB water pump, 180 deg. all day.


    Ago
     
  26. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 5,093

    73RR
    Member

    A couple of thoughts:
    BB pump? as in 383-440? as long as the same connections/routings are used, any pump, with the same flow capacities, will produce the same results.

    Similar to Bills concern, we had a blown 392 a few back that boiled/vaporized water at the back of the heads while it was on the dyno. Caused plenty of concern, but it went away when we pulled water from the back of the head as well as the front. Only time we have seen it.

    The small block cover takes me back many years. We modified and installed a 318 front cover on a 330. It worked out well.

    .
     
  27. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,336

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    To Brand Apart. Email me and I will send you out a set of end plates, if those are what you need. Pay it forward here on the H.A.M.B.
    Tom
    twaters@together.net
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  28. EARLYHEMIBILL
    Joined: Apr 7, 2008
    Posts: 462

    EARLYHEMIBILL
    Member
    from ?

    About that 392 overheating on the dyno, perhaps my idea would work well for the Chryslers that have the coolant crossover up front and water ports on the ends of the heads. An electric pump could be used push water to the ports at the back of the heads and then forward to the thermostat. And since there is such a large number of those pumps available, it could be modified to fit anywhere, even on the frame.
     
  29. ThirdGen
    Joined: Nov 29, 2008
    Posts: 453

    ThirdGen
    Member
    from Wales, ME

    I have been searching here and there, and trying to get in contact with some places, but still no luck. I am wanting to run the original 1956 354 water pump. I would like to purchase a refurbished one, or have mine rebuilt. Looks to be the guys that do this, will send you a refurbished and you send your old one in as a core charge. I have tried to contact a couple places, but i am not getting anywhere. Anyone know of a good place to get one? Or should I look into rebuilding mine, because I have seen some kits to do this.

    Any suggestions?

    -Josh
     
  30. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,318

    George
    Member

    Send a PM to 73RR (QEC), he can do it
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2013 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.