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Can you tell me about the toyota straight 6 and it's relationship to chevrolet?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by c-10 simplex, Dec 1, 2009.

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  1. c-10 simplex
    Joined: Aug 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,208

    c-10 simplex

    Here's another thing i've "heard," and i've checked wiki, but i'm still unclear:

    i heard that toyota copied/or was licenced to produce the chevy straight 6 and that supposedly all the parts are therefore interchangable.

    Could you please explain, in great detail, the complete history of this engine(s)?

    One of the reasons for my asking is simply my own curiosity.

    BUT, another reason is i work with a few teenagers at my other gig and most of them are irrefutably convinced that the Japanese produce superior quality cars---one of their favorites is the toyota supra. Even though, by their own admission, they know little about cars. (Could they be getting this mentality from their parents?)

    If it's true about this engine, then i want to "lay this info on them" and see how they react, because among other things, i'm pretty sure the supra had a straight 6 for most,possibly all, of it's production run.
  2. kellym
    Joined: Dec 17, 2005
    Posts: 136

    from Menlo Park

    I think the F series of engines (2f, 3F, 3FE) in the landcruisers were similar to the chevy 6
  3. hotrod-Linkin
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 3,382


  4. johnboy13
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 1,075


    From Wiki-Pedia

    The Type A engine was a straight-6 engine produced from 1935 through 1947 by Toyota.
    The Type B was a technically more advanced version of the Type A.
    The Type C was a straight-4 engine derived from the Type A.
    Many parts were interchangeable between the Type A, Type B and Type C engines (eg pistons, valves, rods). Many of the same parts were also interchangeable with the Chevrolet Stovebolt engine, from which it was derived.
    The Type E was a copy of a DKW engine.
    The Type S was a straight-4 engine that replaced the Type A, B and C in Toyota's passenger cars.
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  5. cj92345
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 138

    from so-cal

    i believe toyota also bought the rights to the 305 small block back in the 80's but never used it....i think.:confused:
  6. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,148


    You dispute Toyota making superior quality engines? Sorry Bubba, but their quality as far as tolerances and assembly go is off the charts's a pleasure working on well designed and executed engines like Toyota that that's said, this topic has nothing to do with traditional hot rods and, expect the worst...
  7. loburban
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 154


    Not a 6 answer but look at Toyotas nascar engine SBC 1st design
  8. slefain
    Joined: Apr 6, 2009
    Posts: 229

    from Atlanta

    Never heard of this relationship before, but I could believe it.

    Every time I see a yuppie in a Range Rover I ask them how their Buick is running....
  9. Ive seen how much they look alike and thats why guys had a easy time of putting SBCs in 60s lancruisers and does it apply here yes if that motor can be used as a inline replacement in 50s and 60 chevys and guys wantin to run a inline.............its a fair and good question,Ive wondered this from time to time
  10. Foul
    Joined: Mar 25, 2002
    Posts: 643


  11. robert56
    Joined: Aug 7, 2007
    Posts: 173


    Do a search here on the HAMB. This topic was covered several years ago. It was thought that the cylinder head was superior on the Toyota, but for whatever reason, it turned out it was not a bolt on fit for the Chevy block.
  12. they haven't used the buick motor for about 15 years.
  13. TV
    Joined: Aug 28, 2002
    Posts: 1,452


    In the early years before World war 2 Gm had a plant in Japan, they made the chevy 6 among other parts and cars. When the war broke out, Gm flew as qiuck as they could leaving everthing behind. Later after the war Japan opened the plant under lics. from Gm.--TV
  14. uglydog56
    Joined: Apr 8, 2008
    Posts: 331


    Toyota bought the design from Chevrolet, but made changes before production. The bore spacing is longer on the toyota version so they won't interchange.
  15. lordairgtar
    Joined: Oct 11, 2009
    Posts: 415


    The older Nissan Patrol from the 60s had a 6 that was a dead ringer for the GM six.
  16. vncruiser
    Joined: Mar 5, 2005
    Posts: 541


    No, it was discontinued in the Range Rover when the 2003's came out with a BMW engine...2006 they went to Jag, and for 2010, they have a 5.0 Jag motor, with a supercharged ,510hp option...The buick motor (derivative) was used until 2004 with the end of the Discovery run...
  17. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,757

    from Texas

    Toyota and GM had a relationship before WWII and the Toyota L-6 engines were reduced size copies of the Chevy 216 L-6 of the 30s.
  18. Ragtop
    Joined: Nov 17, 2001
    Posts: 1,261


    Did you see the ABC coverage? Lots of people dieing in Toyotas because of their accelerator problems, Frames so rotten after 4 years the spare tires are falling out. I think, and that's me, their quality image is all due to the press they've been given and the fact that everyone is walking on eggshells around these people and others because they're so afraid to insult them. PC crap.. I wouldn't ever buy anything but American made stuff.
  19. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,757

    from Texas

    This accelerator problem is because the car owners didn't use the factory mats which have holes in the rear edge so the floor mounted retainer keep them from ever sliding forward to jam under/over the accelerator pedal, or didn't hook the factory mats over the hooks as noted in the owner's manual which nobody ever reads. Even the news report noted the policeman's car, a Lexus I believe, which became the hingepin for this story did not have the factory floormats installed but DID have some other mats in the car.
    I don't think you could say "lots of people" are dying because of these problems.

    Auto makers and every other industry in this country has been under the gun of lawsuits filed by lawyers on behalf of stupid people. Remember the TV news stories of that most dangerous appliance in your home, the gas-powered water heater. Seems these stupid people let their kids play with puppy in the utility room with a glass jar full of gasoline sitting next to the water heater and when the rambuctious little critter knocked it over just as Dad turned on the shower...well, you know the story.

    "Stupid people" laws have increased the cost of goods and services to everyone for almost everything and guess what? They still manage to outwit the most clever preventive devices and kill or injure themselves in the same numbers as before. Nature's own process of natural selection at work.
  20. Bullington
    Joined: Feb 27, 2007
    Posts: 285


    Hit me offline and I can tell you what you need to know. They are kind of the same...but way different..Only a few things can be modified to interchange.
  21. Bullington
    Joined: Feb 27, 2007
    Posts: 285


    The 2Fs are 4.2 liter L6 engines which is a 262 cubic inches I believe.
  22. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 4,691

    banjeaux bob
    from alaska

    The supra inline six is a dual overhead cam engine.It looks a lot like a Jaguar six.
  23. Revhead
    Joined: Mar 19, 2001
    Posts: 3,024

    from Dallas, TX

    We recently rebuilt a 2F toyota for an '85 landcruiser, a chevy 216 and a chevy 235. If toyota didn't copy a few things, then it must be some sort of miracle. There are so many things that look damn near identical, but are just slightly off. The shape of the front cover, shape of the plate behind the cover, side cover, etc etc.. to an untrained eye they would look thee same except of course the toyota does not have siamesed ports.

    As far as the "toyota quality" that ruiner mentions.. there was nothing so exceptionally great about the 2f we rebuilt compared to any chevy 235. It wasn't some beautiful casting , perfectly square deck, or any less worn that any other engine with 86k miles on it. In fact in my opinion considering the toyota engine was a 1985 model and the chevy was a 1962 model (designed in 1936)... the Toyota was kind disappointing and archaic.

    Here's a pic of the 2f on our site
  24. lostforawhile
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,160


    actually if Gm was making engines there before WW2, then it's on topic as far as history of American car makers, I never knew they made engines there though. Not sure on old Toyota motors, not a Yota fan, but I know old Honda motors copied British designs a lot,with improvements. I still like my old iron block with 500000 miles on it and still has hone marks. Whats ironic is a lot of people hate Japanese cars, but the Japanese absolutely love old American iron, and hot rods. American culture in general as a matter of fact.
  25. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,148


    I should have added a caveat to my statement, the only toyota motors I've worked on are from the 90's on up, like the DOHC MR2 and 2JZ for car quality, that's another story, I was only digging through the motors...the only issues I had were the lack of insert bearings on the aluminum heads for the cams (common on newer motors I'm told) and threads could have been stronger had they used a rollform style tap rather than traditional cutting taps...the tolerances and castings I came across were great in my experience...
  26. lostforawhile
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,160


    Honda has been using overhead cams without bearing inserts since the 70's, and somehow they have always held up great, mine has 500000 miles,and not a bit of wear on the cam journals, I believe it's high pressure oil to the head that forms the barrier between the cam and head, I have never quite figured it out.
  27. fat141
    Joined: Jul 30, 2006
    Posts: 1,576


    Best of my knowledge, NOTHING goes from Toyota engine to 235 or 261. LOOK similar, but thats it.
  28. Ayers Garage
    Joined: Nov 28, 2002
    Posts: 1,383

    Ayers Garage

    Yep, those rotting frames on Tacoma trucks were made by Dana Corporation right here in the USA. There's a massive recall on them where Toyota replaces the entire frame with a better designed one.

    And the people dying, like was mentioned is from poor aftermarket floor mats.

    Every company has issues, some more or less, but your post is full of half truth and fear mongering.
  29. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,148


    Run for your lives, there's reasoning and logic going on here!!! Ahhhh!!!:rolleyes:

    People will take any moment they can to cut down something they don't want to know about...nevermind that US automakers have had the same issues with floormats, or Ford's magic self-igniting wiring, or the thousands of other recalls from every manufacturer, let's just concentrate on freaking out about the import ones, because those pose the biggest threat to our economy...oh, wait...what do you mean Toyota employs Americans? But how am I supposed to hate them then? :rolleyes:
  30. bbc 1957 gasser
    Joined: Aug 3, 2007
    Posts: 685

    bbc 1957 gasser

    hahaha i do the same thing ever time i see someone in a duramax ..hey how ya like that isusu ?
    ive owned 11 toyota trucks and 4 runners in my life and they are hands down better than any other car or truck ive had i never had to work on them ..the 22r 4 banger is a hell of a motor ...

    as far as the 6 being related to toyota never heard that before but that is also a hell of a motor so it may be true ..
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