History Auto racing 1894-1942

I'd love to have heard this bunch at the 37 Italian GP...

 

looks like it on the back of the grid...

 

I don't think it's based on anything. Built in 33 it might have been styled on a Ford, it looks like a Ford rear and it had a Cragar OHV. It appeared in the movies Burn 'Em Up Barnes 1934 and Roaring Roads, 1935 and is said to not have gone as good as it looked.

 

1916 Adams Racer, All original
George Adams built it to race in the
1916 Indianapolis Race, but missed the entry deadline.

 

HJManiac feel free to expand on this car if you can. I am pretty sure these are the same guys (Richard and George Adams) that bought and raced the Sunbeam 12 after Packard was done studying it. They bought the Sunbeam to match race it which they did a few times until wrecking it at Kalamazoo in a deadly 10 car pile-up.

This 1916 car is a curious machine to say the least. What is the history of the car?-Jim

 

Some good guesses apart from Oldfield and "Mercer"

Kane County Trophy 25 August 1911 - Elgin

William Barnes Mercer...



John Raimey Cino...



source: http://www.teamdan.com/archive/gen/indycar/1911.html

Post #2597

 

He ran at Sheepshead 1916 ... http://www.champcarstats.com/drivers/AdamsGeorge.htm

Supposedly in the Astor Cup pic mid page here...

http://www.rumbledrome.com/sheep.html

 

Completely agree! What sort of engine has it? I have seen it described as a Duesenberg, but based on that picture that doesn't figure. So far, I have only seen very poor pictures of it in period, but it appears to have looked slightly different in 1916...

 

For you model builders, two new Midget kits in this press release. Gary

http://downloads.hobbico.com/misc/rmx/2010_FallBrch.pdf

 

As to the Adams I realize it ran in 1916 and I have read the stats on the engine (3.75 x 6.75 298.2- 8 plugs, 16 valves horizontal in head-sounds a bit like Duesenberg I suppose) but I would have to blow this picture up a bit and it is not the clearest photo.

The radiator throws me a tad and so does the look of the frame treatment. The wheels are a bit curious. I have read that the Adams brothers also owned Blitzen Benz for awhile although I am not sure that is totally accurate. I am wondering I guess what cars or parts morphed into this car and what history has followed the car till today. -Jim

 

Jim.... That is the same bore and stroke as the two surviving Duesenberg four cylinder 16-valve engines have and they are also twin plug. It would be interesting if we get any more info or photos of this car. I am not aware of any other engines back then with this configuration. The Duesenberg's did sell engines so I may turn out to be one of theirs but even in this poor photo it does not seem have the same shape . I wonder where it is? Looks like it is in a museum. The tires defiantly are very unusual.

 

The Blitzen Benz and the V12 Sunbeam can not have been donor cars for this one, as they both still existed when this one made its debut - see this article dated May 9, 1916: http://news.google.de/newspapers?id...AAAIBAJ&pg=4028,1108180&dq=blitzen-benz&hl=en. The Benz was then owned by Harry Harkness, and I believe he kept it for a couple years more. Trying to remember where it went from there... I'm sure I've read something once, but can't find my notes.

 

Michael I realize that and agree (and I cannot see anything from those cars that could be claimed on this Adams) but the Adams brothers apparently collected some "good" stuff and wonder what else they may have had in their parts bin to morph into this car. The radiator looks a bit Mercedes shape, the frame God only knows and the same with the wheels.

David, I agree on the Duesenberg assessment and kind of figured it may have been Duesey in the past. I would like a better pic though before sticking my foot in my mouth.-Jim

 

Not trying to get off track, brothers. But I have to ask about the twin-plug Duesys (even if this Adams racer turns out NOT to be one).

Did (1) both plugs fire of the same distributor?
(2) did they fire off twin distributors driven smehow off the same cam (unlikely)?
(3) or, did one fire off a magneto?
(4) something ELSE?

Sorry if this sounds basic for you guys, but this is such an early engine, and I'm fascinated by those early twin-ignition systems. THANKS!

 

Michael here is a match race between these two behemoths although I believe this match race preceded the one you refer to in the article. In this race I believe Packard still owned the Sunbeam. I am not sure if I posted this before. What I wouldn't give to take a trip back in time to hear and see this spectacle at Sheepshead.-Jim


Toodles on the left-Blitzen on the right

 

Jim... Which car won the race? Best, T-H

 

This particular match race was in November of 1915. There were two heats with DePalma in the Sunbeam and Burman in the Benz. In the 4 mile heat DePalma won with an avg of 111.97mph and in the 6 mile heat DePalma won again averaging 113.85mph. They reported though that not even a car length separated the two cars in each heat. On November 3 the day prior they ran some impressive 116 mph laps with the Sunbeam.

I am not sure how the two cars ran numbers wise in the article that Michael referenced.

Packard had a very impressive racing garage at Sheepshead at that time and they took DePalma's Mercedes, the Sunbeam and their twin six racer "Typhoon" to watch them stretch their legs. Chief engineer Jesse Vincent drove Typhoon in a 2 mile heat at 102.25. Not bad for a stock based Twin Six (higher compression and cam).

They also took out DePalma's Mercedes which they had re-worked in the Packard experimental department, but had problems with the carb.-Jim

 

Jim.. Thanks, T-H

 

Any luck with the Sub pictures ??

always facinates me that car !


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Gary, I've put a copy of your post in the Vintage "cageless" midget thread.

 

Another early race, this one in Cincinnati, 1910.

 

Jimi,
Here's some interesting 2-spark equipment, both sold recently on eBay.
Cheers, Jim

1. Bosch dual two 2 spark magneto ZR4 4cyl restored - Mar 21, 2010 - (Sold for US $2,750.00)

2. Stutz Delco 4-cyl Twin Distributor - Mar 28, 2010 (Sold for US $1,950.00)

 

Keith no luck so far in getting any Sub/299 pics from the Atlanta contest. Hopefully there are some out there. In the meantime here is a small pic of the Sheepshead match race lineup shot in 1917-Jim

 

Are you sure about the sub at Sheepshead Jim? There's a LOC photo around that purports to show him there but there was no 'speed carnival' or any event August 18. The papers say: the September 22 Harkness 'Speed King of 1917' was the feature of the first meet of the year at Sheepshead (builder and part owner George Dillinbeck who also owned Chicago had passed away in February).
Promoter William Wellman put up $25000 for a match between Oldfield and DePalma and Louis Chevrolet asked to be included, I think the pictures below show the race with Oldfield lined up in a Delage.
The meet was a gala affair with a band and De Loyd Thompson (a made up exotic name?) giving a flying exhibition, Kath Stinson shown here at the track who had them gasping the year before was originally touted in the press who afterwards were only concerned with Chevrolet and De Palma in the Harkness race in this thrilling account.

edit: I guess you're sure them Jim, I missed your post

 

According to this article the Adams was in the Wells Museum 2008 but they don't list it now. That pic is so poor the engine could be a couple of kerosine tins and some household plumbing and what appears to be the chassis sheetmetal. Some sources say it was #24 in the 1916 Astor cup and driven by Bert or Burt Adams and owned by N (or could be H) Adams of Brooklyn.

 

I found the 'speed carnival' August 18, I guess they were referring to this as the first event of the year and talking about the Harkness in the same breath. Kath Stinson didn't show up this time either

 

Ehdubya, The two pictures you show #1 with the Delage, Frontenac and 299 and the 299 beating the Frontenac to the line were the third match race of the day. I have this in my notes as August 18, 1917. The picture I posted was one of the earlier heats. They ran three heats and DePalma won all of them. The Sub competed in the first two heats and then he changed to the Delage for the third heat with the same result. The Sub actually was a very good car on the dirt and they ran match races at St Louis, Milwaukee, Detroit, Atlanta and Sheepshead. The 299 was pretty good on the boards but not so stellar on dirt. The Sub was stellar on dirt and so-so on the boards.

It is not out of the realm that my notes are off but I believe it was this August date. I will have to check my notes as I have been wrong once or twice before.-Jim

 

Guys, THANKS a ton for the twin-spark magneto info !!! -- Jimi

 

Jim you're spot on, the NY Times article linked in post #3276 confirms it. I get the impression the August 18th match races were hastily organized as an earlier article talks about the coming Harkness as the first meet of the year.
Chevrolet 1917 Harkness http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSYcrlTcLK8

Speaking of Mercedes like grilles ...or not does anyone know anything about this Argentine car?