There's a thought...a lot of us have parts hanging out or layin around, if he pays the shipping cost we could "donate" to the project ala "Hambandy"..and coach him along in the build, it just would be sad to see him get discouraged early on in the build and it gets ditched or sold off to someone else with the money and resources easily on hand. Then again just a thought..
Quote "There's a thought...a lot of us have parts hanging out or layin around, if he pays the shipping cost we could "donate" to the project ala "Hambandy"..and coach him along in the build, it just would be sad to see him get discouraged early on in the build and it gets ditched or sold off to someone else with the money and resources easily on hand. Then again just a thought.." And a good thought it is, I'd donate the shipping cost for some of my cast off's if it helped. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I've blown up more small block chevy's daily driving, than I have bangers...at his age, broken is broken, regardless of whether you have the parts to fix it...Keep a head gasket and tune up parts around for a banger and you're good to go.. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
So your Model-A was built for $1000 was it? Tell us what that 180hp manageable roadster cost you to build and how long it took. There are too many people here have simply forgotten how resourceless you are when you're 17. I haven't. I came from a very poor family in the country. If your car broke down (and it did - often) you fixed it on the road outside the house. Till it was fixed you walked the five miles to get the groceries. I know what it's like to have no money and have to run a car. I've bought and fixed up cars for $50. It goes a long way if it's all you've got. So how exactly is this kid supposed to get a 305 to power the rear wheels? Remember he has no tools and no garage. The reason I'm saying stick to Model-A front to back is that he can put it together with a basic tool box. Also he'll learn the basics about pre-war Ford design. Which is important. And it'll end up being a valuable traditional rod worth more than what it cost to build. If he starts welding in axle mounts with a 110V splatter welder in his friends back yard he'll create a monster no body wants. If he breaks down in his Model-A and has to wait a week for parts then he walks a week. Your 305 proposal means he's going to walk for the next three years! Ed
Nelsoncoupe, you need to make a wishlist of things you'd like to put on the car so some of us can check our stashes to see if there's anything there on it. If you're not sure what you wanna put on it, start asking questions as to what would need to make it safe, reliable, etc..as far as engine choice goes, with gas being around $4.00 a gallon unless you have a part time job to pay for gas I'd be looking for a decent, cheap 4 or 6 cylinder instead of an 8 for now. Can you drive a stick? if you can a 5 speed T5 from an S10 would be a wise choice, if not, try to find a TH350 or possibly even a 2004r for overdrive. I'm sure others will chime in with their opinions, but that's a light car and previously stated won't take much to get it going only thing is you need it to keep up with freeway speeds if it's going to be a daily driver. An original 4 cylinder Model A engine is cool, it's stock 40 hp won't keep you going fast enough on the freeway unless you add an overhead cylinder option (too expensive for you at this point), or an overdrive, which still needs the engine beefed up to handle it (another expensive option). I personally think an S10 4 or 6 cylinder drivetrain would be a cheap and smart option at this point in time for you, you can get parts easily still, enough power to get you moving, and easy on the wallet. JMHO.
And right off the bat, if you do plan on going freeway speeds, I would be concerned whether or not the stock model a mechanical drum brakes would stop me in an emergency, plus doing a brake job on stock model a brakes is a little tricky since the shoes have to be ground to match the drums and they aren't bendix self energizing, so they'll take a lot of pedal effort to stop. They are fine for a 40hp model a but not for a 140 hp model a. I'd switch them out for F100,F1, '46-'48,'39-'42(although not self-energizing but better than stock "A" brakes). The '39-'48 brake shoes still need to be "Arched" but it's not a life or death situation, if they aren't the brakes tend to get grabby and lock up in wet weather. The F1's are a little easier to get, but the drums are harder to find, they are self energizing bendix style, the best choice would be '53-'56 F100 front brakes. Easy to find, parts you can still get at Autozone, Pep boys, they are self energizing bendix style and they'll bolt on to the '37-'48 front spindles you'll need also.JMHO
I have to agree here...been there done that. A banger and basically stock drive train is the way to go. Simplicity here. Like I said before think GOW job. No fenders, simple drive train and learn the ins & outs. Modifications can happen down the line. Have fun with it now.
Funny shizz, Ed! That's all well and good, BUT this is not what the kid said he wanted in his OP. That's what I was trying to help guide him towards. How's he supposed to get a 305? Same way he's supposed to just get a running Model A chassis and drivetrain, right? Where does one find those for free?? He said he wants a low-slung badass hotrod, Z'd frame, etc. That's a far cry from a gow job built with household tools for under $1000. Starting with a Z'd frame means he's gonna have to use more than just pliers and a hammer. He didn't say that he wants it completed next week, so what's the rush to build it? And you want to recommend mechanical brakes for a daily driver? I wouldn't. I'd put safety and reliability at the top of the priority list for a daily driver hotrod. But that's just me.....
Hi Nelson, The first thing that you need to do is promise yourself that you will never sell this car, it being your first car and you sell it, you will never forgive yourself. If you can not weld--find a buddy that can weld to teach you...or go to a welding shop in your town and ask one of the welders to teach you, offer to help clean up the shop if that will help. Also find a metal shop and ask if you can have some of their scrap metal that they are throwing away, again offer to sweep the floor for them. Go to as many car cruises as you can, ask the older men that's there if they have or know of any Model A parts that you may be able to get cheap or even for free. All of us older car nuts (I'm 71) are always willing to help the younger guys with parts or advise. Keep posting so we know what's going on with your car. Ray...
Maybe he should find a local rod shop and leave the car there and push a broom around for money/parts on the weekend?, that way it's inside in a safe place, he's learning with guidance and pocket change and connections on where to get parts..
Hello there! I was 16 when i got the frame for my car, my dad said the same as yours, but as my parts pile grew we had the best father-son time ever.. now 3 years in the build my car is nearly on the road, drive it everynow and then, its a blast! we have snow 7 months a year over here, but ill still use the car as much as i can! here is a few pictures for you for inspiration: This is what 2-3 years of weekend fun and 6500$ looks like to me! but i newer did spend more than 1600$ at one time, and that was the most expensive parts.. i got the remains of a rodbuild (he was building a 350 in his model a)
Nothing wrong with the stock frame with stock front axle, a lot of us drive this stuff regularly, just throw some '40 brakes on it, and weld kickups in the frame where you need them.... You could even suicide the front and rear end for really low, and an east coast style channel. Really the beauty of old hot rods, is to build something traditional, you dont need to spend a cent in a catalog other than for gaskets and bearings, all your parts you can source from castoff pre 1949 fords. There is NO reason to run a SBC unless you are building a race motor, hell there a tons of other more traditional motors that can be had for cheap to free because people get pull them out of restored cars to build streeet rods. Flatheads are super cheap too, $100 will get a flathead in almost any market, and most are runnable, sure they might burn a shit ton of oil and even a little coolant, but who cares, you are on the road! Get a 2x2 manifold for $150 and call in a favor with a machinist to get .050 shaved off the stock heads and run it!!
Reading through this I was thinking of Kjell Elias' build. I am glad He chimed in. Keep in mind elbow grease is free and there is lots of parts on this build that need cleaning up. I agree with the other guys. make a plan and stick to it. Set small weekly goals and don't get discouraged. Good luck. I am following this one!
Any greybeard H.A.M.B.ers in Pleasanton willing to give nelsoncoupe some hands-on help? It's clear from his posts that he has the interest and the desire to build a hot rod...but is perhaps a little short on real-world experience - and, dare I say it, the wisdom to make good choices. Encouraging a 17-year old to build an A-powered gow job with mechanical brakes and then turning him loose in a world where 80 mph is common on many roads populated with cell phone addicts is really bad judgement in my humble opinion. Lets instead talk about what it will take to build a hot rod that is safe in today's motoring environment - and then push back from our keyboards and get a little bit dirty helping him do it.
Where does this happen? On the east coast you're looking at more like $400 to $600 for a flathead that "ran when pulled 10 years ago, stored inside mostly." Even the flathead 6's are high out here, at least the asking prices are. Regardless, I just noticed that nobody has mentioned Chevy or Falcon 6's yet, nor the Iron Duke. I had a beater 87 Pontiac 6000 with the 2.5L TBI Iron Duke. I loved that car; it was decent on gas, had just enough pep to be a little fun to drive the 2800lb car. The solenoid and the alternator were the problem areas for me. But regardless, this is an engine to consider. They should be relatively cheap and easy to come by. It's not exactly traditional, but may be practical at this stage.
I'm with you on this brother. The $100 runnable flathead doesn't happen in this part of the country more like $600-$800 and it burns oil, needs a rebuild. The flat 6's aren't that common around here and go cheaper. A tired 283,327,350 will go $300-$500 here. An iron duke is a good alternative, along with 2.8 from an S10. Had one in a daily driver '92 S10 that thing ran on dog water gas, had decent power, easy to find parts for. It ran great when I sold the truck and it had 130K miles on it!. You could find one probably dirt cheap in a U-pull yard now. Plus it could be already mated up to a T5 5 speed trans like mine was. There are a lot of late model engines he could plop in there for now to get it a driver, and once it's a driver, he could fix up the body as he drives it and it'll keep the motivation rolling along.
30 miles out from seattle, i stopped buying them 5 years ago, but i had already bought 7 of them for under $200 each in about 5 years time, all were rough, all but two had a crack, one had a siezed pison, but all could be made to run mabey with a bit of smoke. The one with the siezed piston was laying up side down under the eve of a house in the rain, and i'd seen it sitting there for 15 or so years, it was free, and turned out to have a merc crank. It'd probabaly smoke like a SOB, due to rust pitting, but if i needed a motor, it'd get me running, and that's the main thing, or atleast it'd work as a mock up. Anouter was a 221 that was punched .180 over, and cracked twice and sleved once, but it had a lot of miles already, so i'm sure the cracks didnt affect it. You just have to put out the word to all the old timers in your area and someone will know where to get an old motor. I do see the guy is in pasadena, but i'd assume he could put the word out on here to some of the guys across the border in AZ, and someone would know of a pre53 ford in that's been abandoned in a ditch somewhere I should add, my last 283 cost me $250 and it was 10k miles on a full rebuild, my 331 hemi was $500 and it had $30k miles on a factory replacement shortblock, my $350 303 olds was a low miles boat motor with a 2x2 intake..... Stuff is out there guys! I balked real bad a while back when my old man paid $1k for a fresh rebuilt 0 miles 59ab...
I respectfully disagree about the SBC. There are MANY reasons to run them, not the least of which is they are readily available so they are super cheap, they are easy to find parts for in a pinch.....try that with a flathead. And a rebuild can be accomplished cheaply. Try THAT on a flathead. Bottom line is dollar for dollar (a major issue in this particular kid's case), you cannot beat a SBC for this application, in my opinion.
Are you for real? a rebuilt 283 for $250?,a $350 303 olds w/a 2x2?,and the best yet a 331 hemi for $500!! If this is the case, if I were you I'd be buying up all those dirt cheap engines and shipping them all over the country! you could fund your next project entirely on them!!. I'd consider a rebuilt 59AB for a grand a steal!!, have you seen what they go for just on ebay for a rebuilt shortblock? 5-6K!!. I know of a guy about 6 hours away that has a few later F1 flatties that could be made to run for $500 a piece and I don't tell anybody about it for the sake of word getting out! The last couple of flatties that I sold were in rough shape, not runnable as is, one looked like it sat on the deck of the Titanic and got $300 each for them.
Ok, 5 years ago makes sense now. I've noticed a spike just in the past two in the Northeast and I think it's probably a trend everywhere. I just checked CL in the Sacramento area and the only flathead I found was the 6 out of a truck with trans and the guy wants $600, "Runs great but smokes." There's another one listed nearby for $475, also with trans that "works okay but occasionally slips out of 2nd gear." There is also a Buick 322 with trans for $600 out there as well as a Chevy 283 for $50 that looks ROUGH.
A stock banger engine could be cheap and get you on the road soon. With limited skills and tools and garage space putting together a relatively stock running gear is probably the easiest way to get on the road. Being able to make it a safe daily driver that can drive in freeway traffic will require a lot of $ to get going IMO. I guess it all depends on how quick you want to get on the road. You can always swap out engine and so on after you get a few miles on a stock running gear and decide exactly what you want for set up.
if he is lucky he can get some 32 axels with the mechanical brakes, those are bether than the model a ones i really like my model a brakes tho.. they brake hard and works good in my experience the motor can be tuned to run ok aswell, my car now goes by the road at about 60 if i want it to, with a new head and a cam it would be flying its all about having fun
He's already got juice brakes on that 49 rear end though. Do we really want to be steering him toward trying to run mech brakes in the front? I'm still thinking a set of F1/F100 spindles & brakes may be the easiest and cheapest option for juice drums up front. It doesn't look like that frame has all the bits and bobs for the mechanical brakes on it still, so tracking all that down could cost half of what getting a juice setup would anyway.
Hey guys! Wow that's a lot of information. Here's what I need: 1940 ford rearend 1940 ford front axle Wishbone or something like that Juice brakes Flathead engine Transmission Steering column Pedals A model A seat 28/29 radiator BOOKS AND MAGAZINES!! Thanks guys!
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