Pussyfoot - it's a JagBag for me!

Is it Hamb friendly? Well not in the strictest sense, but I contend that the spirit of hot rodding traditonalism is core to what we as Hambers understand and why some of us continue to keep a largely open mind about rods that may not meet the strict Hamb definition of traditional. When it is driving down the road and you do not see what it is riding on or what is under the hood, but the car looks righteous, does it suddenly become uncool when you discover it has independent suspension or a late model engine? Isn't it more about the look and feel, the stance, the rake the wheel and tire combo, the color, than than whether it has buggy springs and solid axles? Anyway I digress....

The Jag IRS has been around for over fifty years - 1961 E-Type was the first production incarnation of what has to be the best riding and nice handling suspension of all. It's first use in a hot rod was in the mid 1960s and it has become a staple in the rodding world. It's virtues have been widely discussed and I would contend that it has significant advantages that outweigh it's drawbacks. And as one Hamber succinctly put it - it has that wonderful British organic/industrial Isambard Kingdom Brunel feel to it.

Now that I am running out of years and the aches and pains and decreased ability and mobility temper my thinking, I want something where I can ride in comfort - for the same reason as geezer's drive Caddies and Lincoln Town Cars - I want me a geezer rod!

From an economic point of view there was no way I was going for an aftermarket overpriced modified Pinto - er, Mustang II suspension ($2k+ and certainly not for an even more overpriced plagiarized Jag IRS from the likes of Heidts or Kugel $6-10k!). I have had many solid axle suspended cars and those can get spendy once you start building them - $2k and up for a 9". As for other common IRS choices, Corvettes have one of the harshest riding suspensions out there - ever driven a C4 Corvette? Rides like a buckboard. So for compliance, ride, all round handling and a factory designed suspension which has more than stood the test of time, there was only one choice. Bearing in mind that this is to be installed under a fat fendered 1930s rod where it will remain out of most public scrutiny, it was off to my not quite so local specialty Jag wrecking yard to see what was on offer - cash in wallet and have truck, will travel....

One of the often mentioned problems with the Jag IRS is poor accessibility to the inboard brakes. Not such a problem if you have a hoist but if you don't, it can be a bear of a task to work on them with a car on jack stands. The solution? Well it comes from Jaguar themselves in the form of the late 1993 (1994 model year) though end of production XJS which were factory fitted with outboard brakes. For my purposes, the added unsprung weight at the hubs was not going to negate the immense benefit of being able to work on the brakes without putting the car on a hoist. Add to that that while most of the outboard brake XJS of these years have solid discs/rotors, a handful of the very last 1996 production cars come with the bigger calipers and even more desirable vented rotors. Not only is this good news for you Pussyphiles but it is possible to upgrade inboard disc Jag IRS to outboard vented brakes. Simply use the hub carriers, discs and calipers from an XJ40 (1987 and up) or XJ8.

I was able to score a complete Jag IRS and IFS - low mileage and ready to weld in, the IFS complete with power steering, power steering cooler and front sway bar, and the IRS with a 3.54 final drive and Powrlok diff (posi), vented outboard brakes, fancy schmancy factory finned aluminum diff cover and the complete driveshaft for a few hundred bucks. Everything tight, pulled while I waited, degreased and cleaned and loaded into my truck. Nothing appears to need replacing or rebuilding - all bushings, rubberwear and shocks are nice and fresh. So for well under a grand I have everything I need to make me the nicest riding driving handling rod I could ever wish for - what can be bad? All I need to do is to redrill the hubs from their 5 on 4-3/4" bolt pattern to 5 on 4-1/2" so I can run my widened stock artillery wheels. My stock suspension is 61-1/2"wide front and 62" wide rear hub to hub. The Jag IFS is 59" and the rear is 61-3/4" so everything looks to be spot on chaps!



Note factory paper tag on cage and chalk marks on diff....

 

Here's the traditional Salisbury diff identifiable by the four threaded holes on top but now with the new fancy schmancy finned aluminum diff cover....

 

This is how the half shaft inners look where the inboard brakes would normally reside on earlier IRS units....

 

Here are the hub carriers and brakes - these are the parts you need to convert an earlier inboard IRS to outboard brakes....

 

Subscribed!

 

If your IRS is an XJ6 model 61-3/4" hub to hub, you can use the later half shafts too - simply unbolt the whole assembly from the lower control arm and the inboard half shaft flange. These are the rare vented rotors, but if you acquire the hub carriers and brakes from an XJ40/XJ8 they come standard with the vented rotors....

 

This is how the parking brake cables mount to the cage on the outboard brake XJS. I am posting these photos because I could not find and detail photos of the late XJS suspension on the interweb....

 

And lastly, these are the more common non vented rotors you will typically find on the outboard brake XJS....

 

Weasel,
I don't know that everyone would call the jag rear traditional but I do think that independent is.

Kentz and Lesley ( I probably got the names wrong but somone can correct me) were building and racing a swing axle in the late '40s on Colorado hill climbs and later on the salt. They were from the denver area.

The Boss sent me a very old atricle on building a swing axle a couple of years ago. I have kept it and have a line on an exposed axle quick change that I am thinking of trying to do it with just for grins.

I have liked the independent ever since I figured out what they were on the old E type jags, I think they are cool whether anyone thinks that are or not.

I'll have to keep an eye on this.

 

I'd say it's definitely trad "enough"... Lots of them out there from a long time ago.

 

I am trying to remember the first jag rear that I remember in a rod, I am thinking it must have been around the mid '60s. I don't think that they got real popular until later when they could be had cheap, but a lot of things got done before being popular.

 

I will post photos of the IFS later but for now I would like to add that the Jag suspension makes a lot of sense - it need not be expensive. It works well on heavier cars - stock XJS/XJ6 weight around 4300 lbs, and also is well suited to 1950s and 1960s pickup trucks. Narrower IRS came on 6 cyl XKE -53" hub to hub and 1963-1969 S type, 420 were 56" hub to hub. These are suitable for earlier/narrower cars. just be sure to check the diff ratio before you by - many XJ6s had 2.88 cruiser gears, some E Types had 3.07 or 3.31 and the manual o/d S types had 3.77s. For my purposes 3.54 will work fine - automatic O/D and 30" tall tires. You can calculate your rpm and everything else here:

www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/calculators.aspx

There are a couple of excellent build threads on Jag installations currently running on the Hamb. There are several interesting ones but my favorite is El Polacko's '1957 Oldsmobile: Jag XJ6 IFS/IRS' thread.

 

Please continue!

 

P'nB they still can be had cheap - I got absolutely everything I need down to the last nut bolt and washer including the driveshaft for a few hundred clams. I too would be interested in finding out when the first Jag IRS was installed in a rod. I suspect it may have been an Early Times member out of the Long Beach CA area - Dan Woods, Richard Graves or one of that crowd. Curt Hamilton of Hamilton Industries of Van Nuys CA has been doing these forever - since the 1960s and still does. If anyone can shed any more light on the first Jag IRS in a rod installation please let's hear from you.

 

Yeah, I am also a big fan of the Jag suspension. And, like you, not alot of years left on the balance sheet so they need to be good years and a good comfy ride is important, second only to massive amounts of torque...

Gary

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I want to say that the first one I saw in a rod that I recall would have been in the Cow Palace in the mid '60s like say between '64 and '66? I remember asking the old man about it and that it was under an A pickup and was all chrome. Last one I lookat at locally was about 400 bucks, no more than a good maveric rear and it had everything except the driveshaft, it did have the last couple of inches of the driveshaft. It had inboard brakes.

The quicky I am thinking about is going to cost me more to get home than the rear itself. it is an iron center out of an old roundy round car, it doesn't have axles but it would have the exposed octagon axle so it should be pretty easy to mount up half shafts.

The absolute neatest thing about a jag rear or even a vette rear is that the center is stationary perfect for a mid engine car. Like say a mid engine A roadster.

I think what determins when a jag rear ended up in a rod is deopendent when the E type came around with the independent. i don't think that they ran an independent before the XKE had one. maybe about '64?

 

Sure stretching the definition, huh?

Kinda traditional like Fad T-buckets, turbine mag wheels, and square headlights....

 

First XKE IRS 1961....

 

There you go that puts the first IRS under a rod in late '59.

 

Did I miss it? What's this going in?

 

I bought the whole car for $200; pulled out the V12, IRS and IFS.

Then I sold the hulk to the crusher for $160.

Do I win the cheap parts contest?

 

Weasel is stuffing a jag IRS under his hooptie with appologies and we are discussing the finer points of when and where plus added swing axled quickies for grins.

In a bit some of us are planning in a lynching but we are not sure who the hell to lynch right this minute, but you are available as well.

 

What did I do wrong??!

 

He wanted to know what vehicle the Jag stuff is being mounted to, NOT "what's going on"

I'd like to know as well.

 

You didn't miss it - I didn't say. This actual car - a 1936 Hupmobile Coupe. So despite the underlying suspension it will look like this from the outside, which is why I was trying to point out in my opening post that as long as it is in the spirit of traditional and visually appears as such, what does it matter what underpinnings it has?

 

It's getting a big Daimler hemi with opposed SU carbs for the full Brit bit with a non traditional 200 4R- won't be built for a while but the parts collection for the project is coming together....

 

If you are going to mount the diff without using the factory cage, make sure you rubber/synthetic bush the head to the chassis. DO NOT solid mount the head to the chassis or crossmember. They are noisey beyond belief! There is a damn good reason the factory put them in a rubber mounted cage!

 

I'm using the cage - but you're absolutely right woodbox - if I mount them uncaged then I use the Snow White Ltd kit which is urethane bushed but not being a fan of urethane for it's complete lack of rotational shear, anything that rotates is replaced with rubber....

 

Beautiful car!

The first time I saw a Daimler hemi I figured it would make a great looking rod engine. Since then I have not seen any others; thus putting the skids on me installing one in anything.

I am really looking forward to seeing all the parts come together.

 

Probably not a thing I am just trying to keep them at bay.