help! 1931 ford Vicki door hinges, and glass channel.

Does anyone see a problem with moving the uppers in the windshield post down to just below the body line.

Second question: if I did move it down which hinges should I use in this mid location?

Third question: what bolts are you guys using on the hinges, having a hell of a time locating torx or Allen drive cheese head bolts

 

Nobody?

 

This is a slant windshield body, right? If you move it down, it would have to be modified or replaced because as it moves down it moves forward, which would bring it out of alignment with the center line of the lower hinge.

Hinge bolts should be available from Sacramento Vintage Ford, Bratton, Mike's, or any other reproduction parts house.... I would think, anyway. Never had a need to remove a hinge, I guess. But I would think it would be a standard thread. McMaster Carr sells plenty of bolts that should work for the application.

 

Looking at this '31 Vic, it looks like the hinges would be really close together if you moved the top one down. Seems like you would want to move the lower one down as well to spread the load apart between the two hinges. I'm guessing Vicky doors are pretty substantial in the well-built and heavy category...

 

I'm thinking on moving it down 9" . Off of the slanted posts to just below the body line on the cowl
That's going to put the hinges at 12" center to center. Strengthen the door and cowl in that area.

Yep, that's What I'm getting at, the alignment and the swing against the slant windshield cowl.
Most if not all originals were riveted, mine are still riveted to the doors , I'm guessing the previous owner changed it to bolts at the cowl for some reason.

As it stands now the upper is reversed from the lower, meaning the upper has closed portion facing rearward moving the pin a forward a bit. The lower as closed part facing forward moving the pin back a bit. Remember the slant cowl. The uppers have a angled mounting surface so that the pins are parallel but not in direct alignment. The upper still sets back from the front.

Clear as mud right?

I'm guessing : since lower hinge pin is parallel with the door edge ( but slightly rearward of the edge) that moving upper hinge down would require flipping it over to match the lower. The pins should line up perfectly and the door should swing evenly .

I'm doing the best I can at correcting a poorly planed and worse execution of a chop done by previous owners. Looking lots better now!! They really butchered up the area around that upper hinge on both sides of the car at the door and the windshield posts. I just can't get to the inner structure to fix it without evisceration of the doors and posts. And they laid the posts back a few degrees further complicating the angle of the upper hinge.

Easiest solution : move hinge & relocation of structural load to an area that's much more convenient. Pretty metal up top, clean posts and winndow reveal.

 

Yeah, gotcha! Clear as a bell. Too bad they didn't think about that a little more...

Well... Here's a good example of how it COULD be placed. Compare it to yours. I'm sure Chrisman's doors were lightened a ton though.

 

I have no idea what a finished door weighs, with glass and interior. I know there was about 6 pounds of tar/sound proofing in there.

I was thinking 12" might be a bit close. Most A s have three hinges , Vicky only two ( not positive on other slants windows ) and the Vicky is the longest door but not as tall.

Upper middle and lower higes different in length and hole pattern from pin only? Sure wish I had a set in my hand or another A to study for a while. What's the vertical placement

 

That's the inspiration, I keep flipping between the extended suicide front end like that or more traditional spring over. Front of frame is waiting for me to decide but from the crank pulley back that's it.


My camera and computer aren't playing nice together, I have a Droid phone that wont play nice with the HAMB.

I can email or cell phone you some, you'll get a kick out of what's been taped to my car.lol pm me the info, ill send them.

 

I would also like to see some pics...

I believe all slant-windshield cars only have two hinges. They might even be interchangeable. Also, I think mine are actually bolted/screwed in place, not finish riveted.

My vote is for spring-over. Vicks are super cool and make great lookin' hot rods! Lakes style with the windshield laid back and a heavy chop like they've started on (based on your description) would be pretty evil looking, I bet!

And yes, I would also agree that hinges only 12" apart with a door that long might cause you a lot of issues, no matter HOW much support you add to the A-pillar. The hinges and pins will only take so much before they start deforming.

 

Here's your pictures. Looks like a great start! if it were me, I would definitely try to rework or even MAKE new hinges to keep them in their current position. There is actually a really good tech thread on making Model A hinges that would TOTALLY apply to your application if you can't get these straightened out. The windshield actually hasn't been leaned back nearly as much as I thought it would be from your description. In fact, it hardly looks leaned back at all. The Slant winshields REALLY had a lot of lay-back already. It's kind of hard to tell because your hinges are open, but they don't look that far off to me.

I would fix 'em, not move 'em. But that's just my opinion.

 

If it helps you any, here's how mine are and I didn't really change the angle at all...



Close-up of the hinge...

 

Well they didnt lean it back but a few degrees, just enough to cause major ass cramps. Just enough to pinch the jamb at the dash and above. Totally screw up the door gap at the wind shield post . It looks like they cut threw the structure by the gas tank with a chainsaw. Pie cut the window radius and sectioned along the vertical parts. I didn't see a reason to do all that
I would have just stretched the door top. That's the one are that wasn't touched, but its rusty and getting a new piece anyway.

Ilooked for doors and posts for a long time, no luck.


Sat for 30 years because the previous owner couldn't figure out why it wouldn't go back together.

 

If the windshield posts are laid back, couldn't you just cut out the hinge mounting point and move it forward and change it to the correct angle. I would guess if you leave the hinges in line on the door, it would still swing correctly.

Cool car BTW.

 

Looking at the pics again, You probably could just tweak the body side hinge to fit the a pillar. Just use a long rod to go through both hinges to keep everything aligned.

 

Thanks,
& good eye Russ. Best I can tell its 2 1/2" based on what I need to take out of the garnish mouldings. Windshield frame is 11" at the corners.

That little piece of steel that you're holding there, all 3/16" of it could have saved alot of bullshit. Who ever did this spent some considerable time on it . Screwing all of thus up wasnt quick. How long did that take to bend up and weld in? Maybe an hour or two.

Best my research has come up with is that the windshield posts are laid back 10* from the factory. I'm assuming that's measured at the windshield side and not the door side. Mine is at about 13*. Yes a 3* change is really close to 3/16" @ that distance. Barely notice the change but the after effect make things work weird .

If it was easy my little sister would be doing it.

 

Mine is chopped 2-1/4 inches. That little sliver that I added to each door probably didn't even take an hour to cut, shape and weld in. Well, maybe an hour with grinding. I didn't have to lengthen the roof above the doors at all because I was able to add that additional length with the 32 header. My hinges are also screwed in, not riveted.

Here's a couple more photos to show the hinge alignment and factory A-pillar angle.

 

If you look at my pics that scooter posted for me in post 11 second pic, and compare that to scooters pics in post 12, you can see that there is at least 1/4" behind the hinge before the reveal on scooters car, mine is hard to see but its just into the reveal. This shows the same on druss's pics. That upper hinge is moved back to that detail line. And its fucking ugly.

It was hacked deeper into the door and more on the bottom side.


Druss- that 32 header change looks fantastic!

 

I see what you're saying. If you were going to leave the top hinge in stock location. Wouldn't you have to move forward to keep it in line with the bottom hinge anyways? That would solve the problem of it being into the reveal. Then I would think it would be a simple tweak of the A-pillar or if you're lucky just to the body side hinge.

I had to completely rebuild the area where the hinges mount on my 34 truck. I just keep everything straight and in line. I know it's a little different because you're dealing with a slant windshield. But I would think the concept is the same.

 

Yes, it should go forward to be in line at stock location. Then it gets into the post deeper messing up that line and redoing all that structure inside of there. Major pain in the ass and probably more damage.

There is a reason why Henry did things the way he did them. There is also a reason why his bodies have been changed by rodders the way they have for decades. This is the result of somebody trying something different. The standing joke around here is " it's no wonder that Guy got pissed off and shoved it into the corner for 30 years."

I'd like to keep Henry's reasoning where i can, but this just defies common sense.
If I could locate doors and a cowl I would have by now. So I need to make a decision on What I have available to me. Option 1 shove it into the corner and keep looking for good parts, Option 2 make what's there work keep cutting and welding till does and then try to make it look right . Option 3 eliminate the problem, remove upper hinge cover with nice new metal and duplicate Henry's middle hinge.

Moving the lower hinge down 3 inches would be pretty easy and spread the load
I can make new hinges easy enough.

 

Sure that's an option. All I need is the front door sections by the windows. What's close? Any slant windshield?


And yes the windshield fitment is a problem, you can see how the bottom corner hangs out.
I'm guessing that's why the inner structure has been hacked up. Saw that tech.

 

The cowls for 31 Slant windshield Vicks and Fordors should be REALLY close. In fact, my visor panel was once a part of Dave's Vicky. Perfect fit! Maybe he can post similar photos after I do to compare.

Here's some upper front jam details...

 

Thanks scooter
Oh so very nice! Now I can see exactly how screwed up mine really are! Hahaha.

How about a shot of the door in the same area. A few of that area from the inside with door closed.

Things get really weird on my car from the bottom of the dash rail heading up. I have nothing to compair to.

Thank you both so much.

 

This is obviously after a 3" hair cut. I eliminated one of the threaded inserts for the window garnish because of how the garnish gets cut up during the process. Just wasn't needed.







This is BEFORE the chop on the door was finished, if it helps with how the interior of the door looks looks...



Before cutting the garnish molding... (to show how the holes WERE laid out on the door)



After... (still not welded up)

 

I was thinking of doing what you plan on doing with the hinges. If i relocate the top hinge i am using a hinge from the rear door of my for door and drop the bottom one as well.

 

Here you go, I hope it helps.

 

Thanks guys! I can't tell you how much I appreciate the help.
Those pics are a huge help. My car no longer bears any resemblance to those detail shots.
What a mess I got over here.

 

Here's the pictures you sent me. Indeed it looks really hacked, but looking at the grand scheme of things, I would consider maybe cutting it all apart, move the windshield post back until the hinges line up, and then put it back together. Sure, there won't be much left to go off of, but it doesn't really matter as long as everything lines up and you can get the window garnish in. The top half of my door pillars are almost completely made from scratch, of flat bar, tubing, and 18 gage sheet metal. No matter how bad your door and pillars look, it's only metal and it can be saved. Based on the other work I see on your car, you seem perfectly capable of doing the work. Did I mention that frame looks sweet??!!

The pics...







From this picture I think you have found the ORIGINAL angle!! You could use this as a guide!

 

Also, you will want to yank those hinge pins before you try to do ANY aligning of any sort! I picked up the nice heavy forged one from Bob Drake. Little heat with some MAP gas, and crank away. Piece of cake!

 

I put Dodge hinges on my coupster turned cabriolet. I had to put the upper hinge in a different spot and make pockets on the doors.

Also I was able to bend the hinges slightly to align the pins to each other. I am guessing mine were cast steel versus forged steel, but they did bend.

On the Vicky pics, there does not seem to be enough of the upper hinges sticking out to be able to make enough of a bend to where it needs to be. So, I would be thinking about making custom upper hinges like an L shape to move the pin forward?

 

Scooter thanks for relaying the pics.

After sleeping on it I decided to cut the cowl and put the windshield posts back where they belong.
Cup a coffee, formulation of plan and get after it.
Four turn buckles, two rachet straps and measuring, looking a pics and I believe its now where it belongs.

This left me needing an addition in the door tops and rebuilding the posts.

Should be fun.