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Old 03-06-2011, 04:27 PM   #1
IRON MAIDEN
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Default Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Has anyone tackled a gear swap in a Jag Salisbury differencial? Converting it to Dana 44 gears. I have read that there are kits available so that you can choose the many gear ratios available for Dana 44s. My series 3 XJ6 IRS has 2.82's in it. I would like to run 3.73's or something up to 4.10's.
Anyone know of a source for kits?
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Old 03-06-2011, 05:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

good luck on that one. I have 2.88 in mine,got a 30 spline dana 44 trac-lok, jag stub axles are 19 spline. checked on new stubs and they were 900.00. my rear end guy wouldn't even talk to me about thicker gears for the carrier. randy's has a locker for 3.73 up for 280.00.
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Old 03-06-2011, 05:48 PM   #3
Jim Stabe
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Quote:
Originally Posted by IRON MAIDEN View Post
Has anyone tackled a gear swap in a Jag Salisbury differencial? Converting it to Dana 44 gears. I have read that there are kits available so that you can choose the many gear ratios available for Dana 44s. My series 3 XJ6 IRS has 2.82's in it. I would like to run 3.73's or something up to 4.10's.
Anyone know of a source for kits?
Check the last 2 posts here http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/jag-...nd-190481.html
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Old 03-06-2011, 11:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

If the info on the above link is correct, I'd think it simple to just sleve the bolt holes in the jag diff. There's even a chance that someone already makes the "shouldered" bolts to make it a bolt-in.
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:35 AM   #5
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Yeah, I've read all those. I can find a 100 of those threads, yet none will actually provide a source for parts. How can soooo many people have and use these rears for hot rods, yet we can't find gear swaps for them? Makes me want to scrap the idea and go back to my Explorer 8.8 and make it easy.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

looked for months on the net and got a lot of "kinda like" info, nothing you could use. Jag parts are completely out of my price range and they are very loyal to their parts(nothing else works). I can't or don't want to change the rear in the TVR and I really need a steeper gear, I am sure there is a way.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Talk to Curt Hamilton at Hamilton Automotive in Van Nuys, CA Tel 818 787-9695 - he's been rebuilding Jag rearends since the '60s and knows everything there is to know and then some....
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:30 AM   #8
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Thanks. I'll give it a try...
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:21 AM   #9
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

I think you might be in a whole world of pain trying to change the ratio of an existing Jag diff.

Jag did make a 3.77 factory ratio, it may be easier to hunt one of those down and swap the entire diff.

Here is a list of Jag years/models and the available ratios.
http://www.uk-hotrods.co.uk/v2/tech/...r/tech_jag.php
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Old 03-16-2011, 04:36 AM   #10
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

keep me in the loop..............

Ray
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:38 AM   #11
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 roadster View Post
looked for months on the net and got a lot of "kinda like" info, nothing you could use. Jag parts are completely out of my price range and they are very loyal to their parts(nothing else works). I can't or don't want to change the rear in the TVR and I really need a steeper gear, I am sure there is a way.
lol, the parts are neither expensive or hard to find. all the bearings are standard gm bearings.. as for the gearsets, as I said before...

But you can use Dana 44 gears. You have choices, use the later style carrier or sleeved or shouldered bolts, the holes in the Salisbury carrier are 7/16" and the holes on the Dana 44 ring gears are 3/8". Easy enough. Gear sets are $200-250. I've also heard of taking the holes on the gear to 7/16"

Quit making everything so hard people...
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:11 AM   #12
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

my cost on dana gears is $300, it is the carrier that is my problem. I need a 3.73 up carrier with 19 spline side gears. I have finally found one at Randy's. still, $600 bones is a lot for me. It is the choices I made that made it hard not my attitude.
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:39 AM   #13
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Randy's????
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:45 AM   #14
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

I am looking for a 3.54 Jag diff for myself right now. Should be able to get a whole rear end or just the bare diff for around $400 (or less).

A set of new Dana gears in Australia costs about $300 plus $100 freight from the US, plus all the worries about bolts and carriers, it is just not worth the trouble.

Just buy a second hand diff, and sell the one I now have, and it should cost just about zero to change the ratio without much messing around.
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:49 AM   #15
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

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Originally Posted by zman View Post
lol, the parts are neither expensive or hard to find. all the bearings are standard gm bearings.. as for the gearsets, as I said before...

But you can use Dana 44 gears. You have choices, use the later style carrier or sleeved or shouldered bolts, the holes in the Salisbury carrier are 7/16" and the holes on the Dana 44 ring gears are 3/8". Easy enough. Gear sets are $200-250. I've also heard of taking the holes on the gear to 7/16"

Quit making everything so hard people...

As you said before ???

As far as it being hard, I've never fooled with a differencial other than pulling the cover to change the fluid. So this is 100% new to me. Then you add to it that there is nothing to be found online showing how to do a gear swap.....
At this point, I almost don't care if it is possi or not as long as I had proper gears. I too have read that you need a different carrier for the 3.73 and up gears. By the way, with no experience.....not even sure what the carrier is ; ) See my problem? Now we have someone saying the axle spline don't match the D44's.....
As much as I want to use the Jag rear suspension with the Jag front suspension, I may scrap the idea. The more I look at this, the cost to rebuild the suspension + the $$$$ and questions of the gear swap..... may just be too expensive to use. Might have to just use the Explorer 8.8 I have sitting here.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:00 AM   #16
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Dana 44's do have two different spline counts, the smaller is usually fitted to front 44 diffs with smaller axles, and the larger to rear 44 diffs with fatter axles in different applications.
Jaguar used both at different times.
No way of knowing what you have without disassembly.
Changing the side gears in the carrier is all that is required, but it is just one more complication.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:06 AM   #17
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Randy's ring and pinion, helpful folks. a 3.73 up carrier(locker unit) was less than $300 w/ the 19 spline side gears so your stub axles will work. My budget is $1000 for a new carrier, gear and labor. In my case I am not going to replace my rear with a solid axle though. I have watched your thread, don't give up now man.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:05 PM   #18
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Is that just the carrier or the gears too?
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Old 03-17-2011, 06:18 AM   #19
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

I don't know jack about Jag rears. I have swapped gears in Dana 44's. If I remember correctly, I bought the gearsets off E-bay for aroud 120 - 150 bucks. New in factory styrafoam box.

There are two different Dana carriers. I believe the switch comes at 4:11. One carrier will accomodate 4:11 & lower, like 5:38 etc.

They are kinda a pain to set up. The pinion goes in first. The pinion bearings are a pres fit. Shops that do a bunch of these rears will hone out a pair of pinion bearings to make them a slip fit as the shims controlling pinion depth are between the rear bearing and gear. Consequently, if after installing the pinion the gear engagement with the ring gear isn't correct, the rear pinion bearing has to be pressed off again to change shims. It's a lot easier with the rear out of the car too.

Find yourself a local 4 wheeling Jeep shop. If they are the real deal they will be able to swap out your gears no sweat. Jeeps used the 44 too. It's one of the most popular rears ever. Came in Ford pickups, old Mercurys, IHC's. I've been told that even Honda used them in some of their cars.

Good luck
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Quote:
Originally Posted by IRON MAIDEN View Post
Is that just the carrier or the gears too?
that was for a "posi" (locker) carrier. ring and pinion is 150-300 more and new bearings.
jags are not dana 44's, just that some of the parts interchange. this what I got when I searched the web, everything sounds easy, but no specific info. I am taking mine to the "cobra guy" locally and watch him do it. maybe then I will know exactly how to do it.
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Old 03-17-2011, 08:53 PM   #21
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Take pictures if you can. You could do a sweet writeup on it.
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:18 PM   #22
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

IM, in researching my build which is almost like yours I have read about changing gears using the shouldered bolts, I think it was on Ford truck enthusiasts. I also talked to a Friend of mine where I picked up my XJ6 parts car about installing the D 44 ring and pinion and track lock carrier I have in the 2.88 rear I have and he said it can be done. I'll PM him and see if he will contact you about your problem.
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Old 03-18-2011, 01:36 AM   #23
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Thanks for the help. I know with $$$, it wouldn't even be an issue. Just take it to a good gear shop and have it done. But $$$ is an issue so I'm trying to find the most cost effective way to do this. I have to factor in the cost of rebuilding the suspension and brakes as well.
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:41 AM   #24
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

I got lucky with a rear that I got out of a 90s XJS v12 car, 3.54 ratio and posi... maybe just look for a XJS rear or use a 3.54 gear set? The difference between 3.73 and 3.54 isnt enough to justify all that extra cost and effort IMO. Good luck whatever you do.
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:18 AM   #25
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

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Originally Posted by scottydc View Post
I got lucky with a rear that I got out of a 90s XJS v12 car, 3.54 ratio and posi... maybe just look for a XJS rear or use a 3.54 gear set? The difference between 3.73 and 3.54 isnt enough to justify all that extra cost and effort IMO. Good luck whatever you do.
That was my original plan but I have had no luck finding a set. If I go the other route, I'm going with 3.92's. I'm going to run a 700R4 so the OD will help me there. plus it's going into a 46 International Harvester truck. I'm guessing if I ran 4.10s it would still cruise fine at 80mph on the freeway. I can't imagine, with the aerodynamics of this truck, cruising any faster than that. So I would rather make it more enjoyable around town.
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:45 AM   #26
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Jaguars used both Salisbury and Dana assys. Ratios were from 2.88 to 4.5ish depending on the car and engine spec. All v12s and XKEs and most VDPs had powerlock diffs - though I doubt you would want to scrap an XKE these days. The easiest way to swap ratios is the swap the whole center section with one of the ratio you want. Rusty S3 XJs are everywhere and cheap. BUT beware not all Salisbury cases are the same - the top mount differs from model to model.
It seems that it would be a lot of work to change to another mfr's gear set when the one you want is as near as your local salvage yard. Also the set up of these diffs is not staright forward - a case stretcher is needed - although I have changed them without.
If you are using a Jag rear set up the cost of gears is usually the least of your worries - just price up caliper rebuild or replacing the needle rollers in the suspension arms!
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpspeed View Post
I think you might be in a whole world of pain trying to change the ratio of an existing Jag diff.

Jag did make a 3.77 factory ratio, it may be easier to hunt one of those down and swap the entire diff.

Here is a list of Jag years/models and the available ratios.
http://www.uk-hotrods.co.uk/v2/tech/...r/tech_jag.php
The 3.77 only came on the manual trans with O/D 3.4 & 3.8 S-Type sedans. very rare and I doubt if you'll find one in the U.S....
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:27 AM   #28
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

I used to live near the Canadian border, and found a wrecked S-Type in Cornwall, ON with the 3.77's in it. It now resides in my t bucket and is awesome, other than the rpms it turns at highway speeds with my TH350. I'm pulling my 15 year old hot rod apart right now to (in part) install a 700R4 which will give me much better highway rpms.

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Old 03-25-2013, 04:22 PM   #29
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Some info was posted here on a HAMB thread about 6 months ago, isaved a couple of the pic's relating to discussions about Dana and Salisbury stuff.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:25 PM   #30
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

I used an open (Non LS) 320 Jag rear, right width with 3.54:1 with 235/75/15. With a 700R 2k rpm @ 60mph. IMHO I would just source a complete good used centre & swap it over. Saves time & $$$$$.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:32 PM   #31
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

fiftyV8 - that was one of my posts on my tech thread 'Pussyfoot - it's a Jag bag for me' on Jag suspension (IRS designed in 1957) and a hot rodder's staple from 1964 on which got closed for being non traditional while hundreds of threads on Mustang II and airbags remain open....

And mgtstumpy is right - just buy a center section with the desired ratio - I may even have a spare 3.54 laying around....
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:40 PM   #32
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ddooce View Post
Jaguars used both Salisbury and Dana assys. Ratios were from 2.88 to 4.5ish depending on the car and engine spec. All v12s and XKEs and most VDPs had powerlock diffs - though I doubt you would want to scrap an XKE these days. The easiest way to swap ratios is the swap the whole center section with one of the ratio you want. Rusty S3 XJs are everywhere and cheap. BUT beware not all Salisbury cases are the same - the top mount differs from model to model.
It seems that it would be a lot of work to change to another mfr's gear set when the one you want is as near as your local salvage yard. Also the set up of these diffs is not staright forward - a case stretcher is needed - although I have changed them without.
If you are using a Jag rear set up the cost of gears is usually the least of your worries - just price up caliper rebuild or replacing the needle rollers in the suspension arms!
Unless you find one from the 1960s or the Euro variants like the 2.8 and 3.4 XJ6, you will find that the mid 1970s thru 1986 U.S. XJ6/XJ12 were mainly 2.88 ratio. A few 3.54s were also supplied in the US. The XJS from mid 1993 (1994 model year) thru end of production were 3.54 Powrlok with outboard brakes. A handful of the 1996 XJS had vented rotors. The diff on these has additional lugs cast in for the parking brake cable brackets and a fancy finned aluminum diff cover....

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Old 03-25-2013, 07:11 PM   #33
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

It's easier than you think. Get an Auburn 19 spline carrier / locker of your choice and the matching side bearings for a standard Dana diff. They are a set in Auburn catalog. Get any Dana ring and pinion of your choice and a shim kit. It will drop in just like a Dana. You can also reuse the jag gears by simply drilling out the holes on the Auburn carrier to 29/64. If your jag gears are low (2.88) you'll need a carrier shim. If you Jag gears are 3:31 or 3:54 you wont need the shim.

All you hear about shoulder bolts this and that is bunk and internet subterfuge because you wouldnt want to use the jag carrier in any case...chances are it's open, worn out or low bias AND if its from a 2.88 (most are) it has the wrong offset for taller gears anyway.

The only considerations are the input shaft and setup. You may have to switch from flange to ujoint yoke. You can get a longer drive shaft or longer yoke on the transmission side to take up the space the flange used to occupy. You can make your own setup bearings buy purchasing an extra set of side bearings and using using a fine sandpaper roll to open them up a bit so you can slide them on and off by hand.

Its cheaper to do it this way because the Jaguar side bearing much more expensive than the side bearing the Auburn uses. The Jag side bearing are specail order. Auburn diff side bearing are available at your local auto parts store.

A proper rebuild kit for the Jag LSD (if you can find one) is also very expensive. Last time I check the steels were 40$ each.

Dont pay up for a 3.54 Jag LSD from the mid 90's...they are low bias and have very little LSD function.

Last edited by icsamerica; 03-25-2013 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:21 PM   #34
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

the clamping force of the bolts is what holds it together,,the shoulder has nothing to do with it,,on newer jeeps theres a issue just like this,,,ive used the 3/8s bolt gears with the 7/16 carrier 100s of times...
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:51 PM   #35
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Quote:
Originally Posted by IRON MAIDEN View Post
I would like to run 3.73's or something up to 4.10's.
What's the reason for wanting that ratio range?
It's not something that have even beem concerned about.
Run what ya got and worry later.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:14 AM   #36
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

What's up Gents? Been a while. Switched over to the C5 Vette for a while doing suspension upgrades.
I'll be back onto the Harvester build asap. I havn't given the Jag gears any thought for a while. I've come to accept that I will just take it to a good shop around here and have it built up when I'm ready for it. No different than me needing a good 700R4 as all I have now is a core for my mockup. 3.55's is what I ended up looking for but never had any luck. The XJ12 had them I believe. I'll just go with an Auburn or something of the sorts when I have it built.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:53 AM   #37
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

in Australia we had the Ford Mainline Utes , they came standard with 4.11 to 1 Salisbury / Dana gears ,

I used to fit the 4.11 crown wheel and pinions into the Jag centres , every so often

What I remember .......crown wheel bolted up to the hemsphere OK , pinion went in OK using off the shelf bearings and seals etc .........just had to grind out the Jag housing a touch here and there for clearance for the crown wheel

I'm goin' back 40 years ...............

cheers
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:46 PM   #38
IRON MAIDEN
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

So I have come across a 70's posi/gear set. He's not sure of the year or what it came out of other than it's a series 1 suspension. The guy has the 3.54 gears and posi unit for sale as well as the 19 spline stub axles. I don't think I need the stub axles so what is fair for the posi unit and gears? It's in the shop right now having the internals swapped to a 30 spline setup. He said it looks like it was recently rebuilt as there are still marking for checking the gear contact. He is gonna send me pics when the swap is done.
Any advice on what is a fair price. Not much in the searches I did.
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Old 06-15-2013, 09:58 PM   #39
IRON MAIDEN
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Default Re: Jaguar salisbury/dana 44 gear swap conversion kits????

Here's the photo of the diff before he took it to the shop for the rebuild.
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