I'm having a hard time deciding which front disc brake conversion to do on my '62 Galaxie wagon. When loaded up with people and junk will weigh in at close to 5000lbs and currently has the stock single chamber master cylinder system that is power assisted to 3" drum brakes all the way around. The single chamber MS is getting tossed asap with a 70's F150 or Granada dual chamber unit and a proportioning block or valve. I've been talking quite a bit with our own Scarebird here who makes a very nice kit utilizing the stock spindles, late 60's Mustang rotors (11-1/4") with S10 calipers (2.5" piston). I'm considering also swapping in a late 70's Thunderbird setup that bolts right in using the Thunderbird spindles, rotors (10-3/4") and stock calipers (3.1" piston). Which is more important, the bigger rotor or the bigger caliper piston? Is this all apples vs. oranges and I'm over thinking all of this?
Personally I would go the T-bird way. You also need to match the Master Cyl to the calipers. 3.1" piston will take more fluid volume to move the same distance as the 2.5". I would look into what size the piston of the T-bird MC has and try to get as close to it or even larger.
Do you have a reason why you would choose the T-Bird setup instead? As far as the MC goes, the T-Bird uses your standard 1" bore, dual chambered unit.
Don't rule out Granada spindles either. They may be the same as the T-Bird thus me wasting your time, but as far as I know that was the way to go.
The late 70's Granada setup is the same. The mid 70's intermediate Granada swap uses 12" rotors (sweet), but you're stuck with 5x5 bolt pattern (lame).
The BIGGEST rotor is always best. assuming the rest of the parts are compatible.. The brakes convert energy to heat. The better they can absorb and then quickly dissipate heat the better. That is almost 100% dependent on the rotor mass and diam. The other things like piston diam, or number, have more to do with pedal effort, MC size, and pedal lengths etc. and other details within the system, but the ability to perform the work is dependent on size. The best indicator of a brakes capability to stop a heavy weight at a high speed is the rotor size and mass. I wouldn't want to stop 5,000 lbs with little Granada brakes. They are barely enough for lightweight Mustangs. I've smoked those before... very quickly. If it were me, I would find a way to adapt mid 70's Impala, or Cadillac, or early 70's Chrysler rotors to your spindles, or some LTD parts, but I would never use brakes from a car smller than the one you have now. You MUST use something from a car that is bigger than yours.
here is a post of when I had to finish the setup that was started on my 64 Galaxie Wagon. Thought it might help with some part numbers and caliper specs if you need them. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169995
Granada is not the same as the 74-79 Tbird, Torino, Ranchero, etc. The granada has a different ball joint taper. It is not bolt on. You must modify things. The Tbird, etc is bolt on, and big enough to stop your Galaxie.
I think the T-birds were about the same factory weight ~4000lbs or slightly more, so the weight factor is right along the lines with my Galaxie. I'd rather have the bigger rotors and the use of my own spindles that have already been magnifluxed for cracks. I'm hung up deciding now if the 2.5" piston vs. the 3.1" piston will make a huge difference. Scarebird also gave me a source for S10 oversized calipers with 2.75" pistons which will also work with their kit.
I know the Granada swap requires either 15's or 14" disc brake wheels. I would assume the T-bird requires the same because they are pretty close as someone said.
try master power brakes sysyem bolted right on every thing came together including rotors seals brackets new master cyl,power boosternew gm calipers and customer service was good aqnd price was reasonable. s10 calipers def don't seem big enough to stop a galaxie wagon.put a set on my 59 2 door ranchwagon and they work fine
i ended up using a mastercylinder from a lincoln mark vII, which is the same as an SVO. it has a 1.25 inch bore. works great on my 64 gal.
I'd hang the BIGGEST rotor I could find on there!! Especially since you are talking about a wagon - I envision it's already HEAVY and has the capacity to be stuffed with more wieght or even subject to ocassional towing duties. In ANY event - it's BIG and has the ability to be loaded with even MORE weight. I think those suggesting you stick with larger "donor" brakes are giving you words of wisdom. Strictly speaking the mass in a rotor doesn't do much in terms of increasing your brakes stopping performance. Man THAT'S a loaded statement. Let me expand before I get blasted. As the mass is increased the brake rotor temp rise RATE is reduced. Keeping the rotor temp resonable depends on not only the car's weight, but also the time during and inbetween stops. So it stands to reason that a BIG car will need a big HEAVY rotor to keep rotor temps reasonable. In use, the rotor heats up and post stop is allowed to cool. They design the mass of the rotor to prevent overheating in predetermined conditions. So yes MASS is "good" in a lot of ways, but it isn't making you STOP better - it DOES allow you to control rotor temp better and THAT will make your brakes perform reliably. Remember the beginning of disc brakes. Solid Rotors were the norm and under HARD use they had a tendancy to warp. Drilling them full of holes might aloow better cooling but you also change the rate in which they increase in temp during a stop. Drag racers can get away with lightening rotors because there is a LARGE amount of time between uses in which they can cool down. Road racers will duct extra cooling air to do the same thing . It didn't take them long to figure out that vented rotors were superior to solid. I guess my long winded pint is - that there is a LOT to brake design. Way more than most of us will ever know - therefore the wisdom that suggest using components from similar weighted cars is quite smart IMHO. AS for your origional question - I believe that the larger rotor would be my first choice - for the reasons stated above. Warping your rotors during a series of hard stops wouldn't be very fun. I don't want to dismiss the importance of caliper size either - but it seems to me that having the rotor as your "weak" link doesn't make alot of sense to me. Plus it seems to me that an undersized caliper will result in increased pedal effort - there are other ways to deal with that - power assist, M/C bore size, pedal ratio.
I know Scarebird and recommend his stuff to a lot of people on various boards. I've even met the man at a Snohomish WA show a number of years ago. The advantage to what he offers is you get to utilize common parts to upgrade your system. I mean, try finding a Brembo rotor in Thermopolis WY.
Amazing how you kids want to pile on the weight by adding Discs to everything. If you port and tune drums, they work just as good as discs with 1/3 less dead weight. Twin M/C exchange is a good idea.
I would have to disagree.......much more brake fade with drums when they get hot.If you only have to stop every so often there fine,but if you actually drive your car in traffic.....
Well now THERE'S a funny statement!!! Let's review some basic physics. We MUST generate HEAT to stop our car. no heat = no stop. Physics Disc brakes dissipate heat better than durms. Physics Mass is your temporary heat storage device - controling your heat rise until you can dissipate it. So all things being equal (say your drum generates as much heat as your disc - which makes it "just as good" - but now you have to STORE that heat until you can dissipate it. Mass becomes your friend here unless you can get the dissipation rate extremely efficient - drums don't get THAT job done as efficiently as disc brakes do. Result = brake fade. Consider the vehicle here - a HEAVY STATION WAGON. We're not talking about a light weight rod that needs to stop far less energy. Production cars have long since benefitted from the lessons learned in racing. It didn't take racers long to realize which brakes were superior. Do all cars HAVE to have discs. No - they don't, but in this situation I gotta think the only "kid" involved is YOU KIDDING YOURSELF. If I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first time) then I must ask - why the proliferation of disc brakes on modern cars - race cars etc. We all know they like to reduce the unsprung weight - why do they then "suffer" with those disc brakes???
So is the general consensus that the bigger rotor is more essential than the 1/2" larger caliper pistons? 59 Brook - what size rotors and calipers does the Master Power Brakes setup use? I looked on their website and it doesn't say.
Seems to stop great, the pedal is a little stiff (but better stiff than soft in my mind), I am running a dual master cylinder of course with a regulator to the rear brakes. My wife (she weighs all of 110 pounds) has drivin it almost more than me and has never complained on the stopping power or distance. No problems in my eyes with my setup. Hope it helps
I did the Granada conversion on my '62 Galaxie and did some major testing with it over the weekend -- on the Americruise autocross and Go & Whoa courses. The Granada master cylinder was a direct bolt-on. (don't know if that had been mentioned yet) I am pretty happy with how well the Granada set up works; however, it didn't make as much of a difference as I had expected, vs. the stock drum set up. I have to push the break pedal pretty damn hard (manual) to stop quickly. It will definitely lock up if you stomp on it hard enough. One definite up side is no more brake fade, like I had w/ the stock drums. That could be a bit scary at times!... especially driving in busy traffic. It is possible that I just need to try another master cylinder, since the one that I am using sat on a shelf for a good 5 years before I finally used it (purchased originally for a different car). Anyways, hope this will help you out! Malcolm
Thanks for the info Malcolm. Sounds like a power booster would help you out a lot. Any 60-64 unit should bolt in I think. Without the power assist on mine, its a real bear to get stopped. What year was the MS you used? I'm considering a unit from Napa (#TS 101529) that application fit is for a '72 F250 with disc/drum, but this one has an 1.25" bore instead of the standard 1".
Ok, if you want the ultimate in stopping power for your '64 using junkyard parts, scare up a '71-'72 LTD front disc setup. These have 12" rotors as opposed to the T-Bird's 11's and are bolt-ons. The wheel bolt pattern is the same, but you MIGHT or might not have to go with 15" wheels. Actually, you can go up to '78 LTD. But starting in '73 Ford went to the 5" on 5" pattern instead of the older 4.5" on the fullsized Fords , Merc's, '73-'76 T-Birds and Lincoln Marks. Also, a fabricator friend of mine in El Paso built a bracket and fingired out which wheel bearings worked to adapt a 12" Impala rotor and Caliper to the stock '61-'64 Galaxie spindle. I'm not sure that he's selling this setup due to liability issues. His username here is Drive Em, so it might pay to send him a PM and ask.
Hey Junkyard Jan. This setup sounds pretty good, other than the rotors look to be about 4 times as much as the other rotors for the other kits. Looks like it uses a 2.75 caliper piston, which is slightly smaller than the t-bird swap. Do you know if the spindles are bolt in?
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