Technical MOTOR, Flathead in 32 frame - Engine Height?

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This is alot of great info.

Tommy - What is this chassis for? I know you have the SC, the roadster and the pickup, but what else?

Also a question on your headers. I just got a NOS RHS tube header, so I will probably make end up making one for the LHS. Are the flanges a standard 1-1/2" exhaust flange? Or are they something flathead specific?

Thanks,

Neal



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This is a frame I'm putting together for the roadster. 1951(dates on the newspapers in the doors) is my target year. (no SBCs in 1951) Oh shit I quess the 53 steering box is wrong. I might have to recapitulate. The plan was to complete this chassis and then swap the body. I got tired of waiting so I put the roadster back on the road.


The flanges are walker universal 1 3/4". The bolt holes need some "adjusting" but the work fine and are cheap. Especially the front 7/16 bolts. I like cheap. I think I still have the pt# at work. Other people have the flanges. They just cost more.

Cheap-n-dirty, are those aluminum Champion heads or painted cast iron ones. The Champion heads I've seen were cast iron.

 

The flanges are Walker pt# 31926. Any parts store selling Walker exhaust products should be able to get some for you.

 

those are cad plated cast iron heads. they are on a 3/8 by 3/8 engine with a 400 jr isky cam and the block was ported and relived.

 

I slept at the switch on a set of those. When I went back to get them they were history. I like them because they are different.

 

Well, I got motor mounts tacked in today. I set them flush with the top of the rail, since that seemed like the consensus and the best compromise for radiator hose alignment and pan/wishbone clearence.

Here is what I have so far...



and a shot from the other side...



I guess I could have left the motor mounts that were in the frame, I would have had plenty of ground clearence then



Next, I need to cut my K-member to clear the transmission and get that welded in, but it is starting to look like something.



It sure looks low after having it up on sawhorses...



Thanks again everybody for all of the help so far.


Neal

 

Nice pix, nice work and nice ride man....keep up the good work !!

I set up my 8BA the same way.....mounts flush with the top of the rail. All fits together real wel....check out the pic.

Rat

 

Ok, I got my home hade K-member trimmed out to clear the transmission and fitted into the frame.

Now my question is about scrub line. The bottom of the wishbone ball is at 4" and with 5.50-16's in the front my rim is at 4.25". I don't have all of my leaves in the springs, so it may raise a little, but even 4.5" seems awfully low.

So for those running stock front wishbones, what kind of ground clearance do you have at the ball? Is that the lowest point?

Neal

 

Yep
That seems LOW if it driven a lot. BUT how many leaves are you gonna run eventually. Maybe I missed something but judging from the previous pics its not the scrub line you have to worry first. It´s the p-arm clearence to frame ´cause there is none. If you now have the main leaf and gonna run say 6-7 leaves (front) it is gonna rise almost three inches??? Well the rear leaves have the same thickness and stiffen up the whole spring package in the same way....

 

Hey Neal, I'll find you a photo of mine, its that low and its a stock K member, so dont be too worried, just watch those speed humps!

 

The first time I loaded the sport coupe on the trailer after going from the 600-16s to the 15"ers, I came to an abrupt stop!! BANG. There was a large nut welded to the trailer right in the center. That's the only time I ever hit anything and I'm running 3.50" at the ball. I just checked to be sure.

 

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Yep
Maybe I missed something but judging from the previous pics its not the scrub line you have to worry first. It´s the p-arm clearence to frame ´cause there is none. If you now have the main leaf and gonna run say 6-7 leaves (front) it is gonna rise almost three inches???

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Well, the previous pictures showed the chassis with 5 leaves in the front, and the tie-rod is a piece of conduit bolted in just temporary. Yesterday I put in the front spring I plan to use with 7 leaves. It raised the front about 1-1/4". The wishbone ball is now at 4-1/2" and I have quite a bit more clearance for the tierod.



I brought the cab inside to start working on it yesterday also. But before I started I had to set it on the chassis and see what the pile looked like.



I need to get the seat, firewall, and cowl/windshield area right so I can set my steering column/gear and pedals. I need to take a couple inches out of the windshield frame and fit some roadster pieces into the cowl area to get it looking right.

Neal

 

Cool looking body. Maybe I should just shut up but 1 1/4 p-arm clearence seems a bit marginal concidering the spring will still settle and the clearence will be less? Maybe it is enuff maybe not. If you would have liners, grease between leaves or posies or monoleaf, I´d say it is not enuff. Anyway my experience is surely limited to my own ride which had 7 original leaves and now a monoleaf and of course some info from friends rides. And maybe the roads here are not what you are used to. The winter time really rapes them. But still I´d say the tram rails are the worst when you hit them at about 40 mph. Makes the teeth fall out. That is why I really want have some spring travel..

 

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Maybe I should just shut up but 1 1/4 p-arm clearence seems a bit marginal

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I really have about 2" clearance. In the first pic, the tierod was on top of the steering arm, now I moved it to the bottom, where it should be.

I got a few e-mails with concerns about the tierod running between the frame and wishbone. I see this commonly on Model A and 32 frames with stock wishbones. I have heard of one instance with this setup, that the tierod got pinched in a turn due to body roll and the steering wheel could not be turned.

Anybody else have problems with this? Tommy, Flatoz, TV av8, etc? What are your thoughts?

Neal

 

I've hit some pretty serious pot holes on this side of our country. The paint got chipped sometime over the years so it must have made contact once, but it sure isn't a problem. Both of my cars are done this way.

It will all depend on your selection of parts. Different depth axle drops, reversed eye spring?, reshaped steering arms? and the amount of natural sag in your spring.

I'll take some pictures tonight.

If noone gets you a picture of the P/U subrails, I'll bring my camera to work tomorrow. I took the cab to work and I'm actually working on it! The supports for the angled toe board are part of the deuce firewall. The deuce subrails are cut off 8" forward of the door opening just past the front body mount bolts. I'm guessing you'll need to shorten the 33 rails.

 

Neal ,

will dig out a photo of my front end set up, but looking at the photos I would be more worried about the serious angle of the dangle on those front shackles. You'll end up with some serious bump steer as the spring wont be able to flex it will just swing from side to side.

Plus if you dont have all the weight on it yet it will only get worse.

I had to get a new main leaf made for mine about 2" shorter to bring the shackles to a 45 degree angle.

I'll go looking for that photo...

 

You old dog you , I didn't know you were building a 32 rpu, that is so cool.I love it, I'm gonna go throw rocks at my 32 closed cab ha'ha. Anyway that is some kind of cool,way to go,---TV

 

Neal, yes, on kevs roadster the tie rod would bump and we had 2-1/4". We made a droped tie rod and solved the problem when you saw the car it didn't have the dropped rod.It would only hit on a bad bump, most of the time it was ok--TV

 

TV - As you have probably seen, it's not a real rpu, just a cut off. I hope it turns out convincing enough. There will be alot of metal work involved though.

Now on the tierod...How much of a drop did you put in it? Any problems with adjusting toe-in?

I was looking at this pic of Keith Weesner's Model A. The drop in the tierod will take care of it hitting the frame going straight, but not if you were in a hard turn, but I guess that would be a rare case.

Neal

 

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I got a few e-mails with concerns about the tierod running between the frame and wishbone. I see this commonly on Model A and 32 frames with stock wishbones. I have heard of one instance with this setup, that the tierod got pinched in a turn due to body roll and the steering wheel could not be turned.



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Give some thought to running a rear sway bar.
I have a Deuce Factory sway bar in my 32 and it really makes the car run flat in the corners.
Roy Fjastad of the Deuce Factory reported that a rear sway bar was sufficient for the roadsters.

I was surprised at how much my 32 would rock when pushed back and forth by hand with the sway bar disconnected.
(Transverse spring up front and coilovers in the back.)
Sway bar connected, no rocking to speak of.

I know you're working with non-aftermarket stuff where you can, but you could probably find a sway bar from a small car in the junkyard that would be easily adaptable to the 32 frame.

I'm wondering too, does your draglink run uphill from steering box to steering arm?
If so, perhaps you wouldn't have to disturb the boxing plate and could mount the steering box on top of the frame.

Did you see the schedule 40 flathead headers I posted a while back?
Might be a good way to go if you're building your own set.
The builder tells me they come in at a little less weight than a stock exh manifold and of course, heavier than a tubular header.

So far, the RPU is coming out looking pretty nice.

 

Neal,

do you need to drop the tierod? after all as long as it clears the A bar on full lock both directions your home free. As its a solid unit and cant ever hit the A bar.

As for the chassis, just heat and bend your spindles so that the clearance at the draglink is a 1/2" above the A bar and that should give you clearance.

I will go home and measure mine for you and let you know tomorrow.

 

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Give some thought to running a rear sway bar.

I know you're working with non-aftermarket stuff where you can, but you could probably find a sway bar from a small car in the junkyard that would be easily adaptable to the 32 frame.



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That is something I will think about. I have some ideas on how to make it look real traditional too...I've got some NOS lever shock arms...Hmmm

I wonder if you could take a junkyard swaybar, cut off the ends, machine a square on each end and clamp the shock arms on. You could then hook those up to the original lever arm shock ears on the ends of the 36 radius rods.

On the steering gear, I am running a stock 32 hood and really don't want to cut it, so I think I am going to stay in the frame, even if it means more work. I think I will form a piece of 10 ga or 3/16 to reinforce the frame where I cut out the boxing plate, to keep it all tied together.

And on the headers, I do like the sch 40 weld ell idea. For now, I will probably make a second tube header to match the one I got. That will get me on the road, but someday I would like to make a nice set and have them plated. The heavy pipe would be real nice.

Thanks again for all of the info everyone.

This post has covered so many aspects of the build, it is amazing.

Now how about the front shackle angle? Looks like Tommy is in the same boat I am?

Neal

 

The tie rod on my sport coupe is dropped like the one in the picture for the same reason...Hurst motor mount on the Chevy motor. When I put it on the flatty frame it wasn't necessary. I used it anyway.

Get the tie rod as close to the wishbone as you can. The drivers side has chipped the paint, the pass is untouched. (lard ass driver) I could have gotten it closer to the wishbone. I started the drop with the oposite wheel on its stop. The drop will still be close to the outside of the frame.

If you want to be different, set the tie rod up on the center of the wishbone. Put a heavy oval tube into the wishbone for the tie rod to pass through. I've seen it done but, I think those bones were split. Shouldn't make any difference they both move together.

 

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If you want to be different, set the tie rod up on the center of the wishbone. Put a heavy oval tube into the wishbone for the tie rod to pass through. I've seen it done but, I think those bones were split. Shouldn't make any difference they both move together.

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I've seen it done too. Plan to do it on my coupe. Here's a picture!