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Technical Any good books for cylinder head design and engine building for landspeed racing?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Fernando Covarrubias, Mar 28, 2024.

  1. Hello, I was wondering if anyone know any good books on cylinder head design and any on engine building for land speed racing application. I plan on designing a cylinder head specifically to run in Bonneville one day (my dream). Any good book recommendations would be appreciated. I have a couple fluid dynamics books from my undergrad but anything more focus on cylinder heads and engines would be great, thank you all!
     
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  2. Sharpone
    Joined: Jul 25, 2022
    Posts: 526

    Sharpone
    Member

    Try David Vizard books, I used his info to design and build a header for my OT Austin Healey Sprite which is working excellent.
    Good luck
    Dan
     
  3. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 3,197

    sdluck
    Member

    Check out these guys,they have built and designed WSR engines from scratch. Aardema and Braun
     
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  4. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,274

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    A couple of "backyard" geniussses!
    I watch their Youtube page and lose track of time.
     
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  5. Land speed racing is high rpm for extended time. It is not an acceleration contest. So your design should concentrate on flow characteristics for those high rpm power parameters. My suggestion is not as much need for a wide powerband, build the engine for the high rpm power and then use gearing to optimize the power rpm at where you want to be.
     
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  6. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 4,101

    RodStRace
    Member

    The bottom end is the air pump, the top end is how well it works.
    Since you are concentrating on the top end, I assume you have a bottom end that fits a class, will live at the intended RPM for the time required (piston speed) and therefore have a good idea of the amount of airflow required and the RPM it also has to live in. If you have those numbers, you should be able to CAD ports to flow the target while still supporting combustion pressures and have coolant passages.
    I have mentioned the Britten motorcycle before. Read up on that.
    Also, I'd look into the depths of the internet. Aardema & Braun are on the Greg Quirin youtube. I'd bet there are other land speed guys out there documenting their work and progress. You may not get every speed secret, but you probably will pick up some things that they have found didn't work, and that's just as valuable.

    I know you asked for books, but so much niche stuff is communicated with internet now, and LSR design is so niche, it probably doesn't have a modern up to date text book. I'd also check out Stapelton42's channel. He talks to old NASCAR guys about 'cheating' and what they did to improve the cars and engines. They have the means to do testing on stuff that most haven't even thought of. It's outdated for the most part for roundy, but again might help you learn what does and doesn't work, along with getting into the mindset of design and testing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2024
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  7. Pete1
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,256

    Pete1
    Member
    from Wa.

    A lot of good suggestions listed previously.
    The library is probably the most reliable source of "how to" info. There is a lot of good information on the internet, BUT, a very large percentage is just bench race talk from people that have not actually done ANYTHING.
    While the engine is a good place to start, you should put at least an equal amount of time researching the car and how to get it through tech. inspection.
    Over the years I have seen hundreds of cars that traveled half way or all the way across the country only to be told their car does not pass tech.
    One of the main things to remember about LSR if you want to go for records is, it is EXTREMELY expensive.
    Getting in at entry level can be managed by most people with a job.
    One of the best sources of reliable info is just go to an LSR event as a spectator. Get a pit pass and walk around and talk to as many crew people as you can. Be courteous and do NOT disturb them when they are thrashing their car for the next run though. KEEP NOTES on key info points. Crews are not going to tell you their deepest speed secrets but if you sift through the info later and get one item you can use, you are ahead.
    Bonneville is not the only place there is LSR. There are several other tracks around the country. Most are shorter but most have cars doing well over 200 mph.
    A very good place to pick up reliable engine info is, go to local circle track races when they are running sprint cars, midgets or NASCAR and talk to crew people.
    Same rules apply, do not "BUG" them. Pick a time when they are not thrashing.
     
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  8. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 428

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

    John Baechtel wrote a good book called Practical Engine Airflow, lots of equations and insight in it. One of the best books I've seen, Vizard not so much with his info...... I've done airflow related work for over 20 years.
     
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  9. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 3,334

    oldiron 440
    Member

    What type of engine are you planning to work with?
     
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  10. Rex_A_Lott
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,155

    Rex_A_Lott
    Member

    I've never been around anybody for any length of time or read any book that I didnt learn something from, but at the same time most books are out of date by the time they are printed and reach the bookshelves.
    Maybe try to find some team to help and pay attention to what's going on around you before you start spending your own money. Good Luck.
     
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  11. Thank you guys for all the help I have ordered some of those books and I starting watching those videos of aradema and Braun! They are bad ass!
    I plan on using a big block Chevy as my engine
     
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  12. '29 Gizmo
    Joined: Nov 6, 2022
    Posts: 803

    '29 Gizmo
    Member
    from UK

  13. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 2,573

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Some other things to consider:

    Darin Morgan:







    MeXX heads:



    Also theoldone.com . Sadly, the boards are gone, but info is there, if you can figure out the proper search terms. Larry Widmer knows his stuff...

    All seem to have a different veiwpoint & approach, but eventually, it all works, when put together as a proper package.

    You could also wade thru the Singh Grooves concept.
    Edit: I forgot to add, I don't think they help much at high rpm, but that isn't their intent.

    &, of course, Smokey Yunick.

    You'll have to search more for MeXX's stuff. I couldn't find it quickly. Might be OT for this board, but he does all his own design, machinework, etc. Darin helped w.the heads' final port/seat/chamber finessing.

    Marcus...
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2024
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  14. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,081

    Beanscoot
    Member

    This one should be helpful:

    IMG_0340.JPG

    I ordered my copy out of England where it is still in print.
     
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  15. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,540

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    I think you are wise to want to learn from books by experts. The information is generally very reliable.
    The internet is a great resource, but it can often be difficult and very time-consuming to separate all of the misinformation from the good stuff.

    Like the OP, I am building a land speed car and doing almost all of the engine r&d and building myself. I have acquired numerous books to help guide me. Buying them and studying them is a big investment of time and money, but it is very well worth it. Here are some that I recommend. I'm also ordering the books that are recommended in this thread by others.
     

    Attached Files:

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  16. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 4,101

    RodStRace
    Member

    For old sites that have expired, try using the wayback machine to view older copies.
    https://web.archive.org/
    You will need to know the old site address to get the best results.

    I'd also look into high end efforts on the same platform, I.E. the BBC. Plenty of builders have figured out how much oil is needed by burning up cranks. They have tired different rods, different cam journal sizes, all that stuff. They have already walked the path and spent the money. Read up on boat racers, drag guys n gals, and especially the people that run them at high RPM for a long time.
    For your head design, I'd read up on rocker ratios. The BBC uses a bigger ratio than most at 1.7, IIRC.
    The new design uses 1.8!
    https://www.chevrolet.com/performance-parts/crate-engines/big-block/zz-632

    Here's an article that says 12k RPM in a pushrod engine.
    https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/the-equal-8-inside-dan-jesels-new-clean-sheet-12000-rpm-v8/

    I would also invest in some engine dyno software and study what parts are available. Being able to plug in numbers and get answers to piston speed, valvetrain harmonics and airflow will help guide your quest. Also, knowing what can be bought instead of made bespoke will keep it financially possible rather than remain a dream.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2024
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  17. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,081

    Beanscoot
    Member

    This one posted by Joel looks really technical, i.e. really good:

    upload_2024-4-1_19-43-55.jpeg
     
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  18. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 2,573

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Wade thru SpeedTalk.com some time. Tech indepth discussions that'll amaze you. & occasional trolls too.
    Worth your time. Like theoldone.com *was* . If you're not careful, you'll learn something.
    Marcus...
     
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  19. Ziggster
    Joined: Aug 27, 2018
    Posts: 1,780

    Ziggster
    Member

    Just watched a vid from the YT channel “Stay Tuned”. Tony purchased a 90s era NASCAR engine for $12.5K on FB. Had been modded by previous owner for drag racing (406 cu in). Engine produced over 800 hp at around 8,000 rpm. The engine was designed and built to run at those rpm’s for extended periods. Lots could probably be learned from stuff like that. He also mentioned how folks cheated. I’m sure all who compete at those levels have their “trade secrets”, so don’t walk into it blindly thinking the rules are the rules.
     
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