Technical Unchopping a really bad chop, need some advice

So, I bought a cab 25 years ago at an auction for $46. Someone had tried to chop it, but missed the mark. I'm trying to figure out what to do to save this cab.

I want to use this on a future gasser project, so I would like to save it if possible. However I have 3 other cabs I could use that are unmolested.

Some pics of the carnage. This is the worst area. Terrible gaps. Not sure where to start, except where they have been welded together.
It looks like the pillars are at different angles. I haven't put a protractor on it yet.
There's a spot on the pillar where there is quite a bit of lead, like maybe there was a previous repair?

 

Kenny Baker, line one.

 

1st step should be to set it up on stands and see how bad it is. Take some measurements, see if it is possible to get the doors to open, close and fit half way decent. Maybe the whole body is warped, maybe it isn't.

Even if it is 'off' it may be possible to save it. Lots of custom cars weren't exactly symmetrical and it didn't hurt their looks.

If it is reasonably true, next step is to go over the welds etc. and see they are completely sealed with no gaps or pin holes. Sandblast, fill and paint in the usual way.

If they tried to lead over a bad seam you are in trouble. I don't know any easy way to get the lead off to allow welding. You may have to cut out the bad part and weld in a new piece of steel.

 

The passenger side seems to be better than the drivers side. I am building a dolly for it this weekend. It's supposed to rain about 4" over the next 4 days, so it may take a while to dry out before I can get it out of the pasture.

 

That is a bit of a mess but still quite savable. The lead is most likely from the factory joint. They did not stretch roof but instead leaned the windshield back. Unfortunately the 6 P's were not used on this chop. That would be "proper planning prevents piss poor performance". So first you need to look at what was done and try to make some forward progress from there.

The firs thing that sticks out to me other than the slightly divergent door gap (insert sarcasm here) is the dog leg at the bottom of the windshield post. The wind shield needs to be treated like its own entity. When the windshield was leaned back at the post the bottom stayed fixed so it is at a different angle than the posts and will create seal problem in the end along with looking stupid and disrupting the flow. The way to fix it is to put the windshield back to being flat then cutting it most of the way across the cowl leaving the center bit intact. The bottom corner needs to drop and move forward so that it can lean back. This will also involve modification to the dash.

Here is a link to my chop on my International, it shows what I had to do. Yours will be easier because the windshield is flat all the way across instead of peaked in the middle. If you have more questions post them here or PM me, I will check this thread.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/international-kb-7-chop.989019/

 

I had thought about making a plywood template of what the windshield should be and go from there.

 

You can save that.

Looks like they dropped the back more than the front. Mix that into leaning the posts back. And the door top curve will look like its from another car.





You just pick what's "good" or what you'd like to be "good" and work from that. Most likely I would make the wind shield correct and on the same plane. However , if it is to be a gasser with a bolted in lean windshield then suddenly the plane of the windshield isn't so important.

The door gaps can be fixed as they are by adding a bit around the corners inside the jamb of the body and to the door skin. I fixed the exact same issue from the exact same problem and it looked almost exactly like yours.

 

The back of the doors hit the cab. I am going to have to get it up on the table and look it over. I would be a little more dedicated if I didn't have 3 more cabs to choose from.

 

It's not the same picture angle, but you could stick your fingers thru the door gap going around the corner.

 

I wonder if some of the gap at the top front of the drivers door is not due to saggy hinges? I was looking at the pic and it looks to me like the back of the door is a ways down.

 

Send it up here, I'll fix it for you

 

Here's a little further back. I think the posts are leaning in 2 different directions.

 

The root of the problem lies in the fact that the angle should have started about 2" closer to the hinge, as in lower. and they took the easy way out and did not cut the cowl to rotate the whole windshield. Take a look at my build thread and you will see where I had to do this, although I might round the sharp corner later. Here are some pics of the critical area and how I addressed it.

 

Man, I have never seen anyone go to that extent to chop a pickup. Hats off to ya. I prolly won't go to those extremes though.

I'm pretty lazy......

 

@55willys-holy smoke dude! Don't be afraid to cut what you don't like! Looks great, but this Isnt your first chop is it??

 

Absolutley is my first chop! The only other top chop related things I have done is reshaping wing windows on a 49 Olds to match the chop that someone else did. I also leaned the windshield back 1" on a 40 Ford convertible and did the wing windows on that as well. I knew I had the skill and an understanding of abstract shape but no one wanted their car to be my first chop so I did my own.

 

Like I said send it up here and I'll fix it for you. I like a challenge like that and it has already been ruined so if you screw it up at least you did not ruin a good cab. There is no lazy way to fix that cab that you will be happy with. When I get ahold of something that someone else messed up I look to find the root of the problem. I try to fix the problem that caused the issue in the first place and move forward from there instead of modifying other parts to fit the offending area.

 

Thanks for the offer, but the logistics would be the problem.

 

I

I know unless we can pass it through HAMB members in a relay. It would most likely be cost prohibitive.

 

If it was mine I would bolt it to a frame that you know is square. Then see if the doors close OK, and if they don't, see if it might be an easy fix or not.

If not, I would leave it on the frame and cut the top chop at the booger welds. With the top off I'd straighten/align the body so the doors close good, then weld X braces across the door openings and across each corner of the body. Leave the doors on when you are doing this to confirm the gaps are good.

If the hinges are worn you will need to back up and fix them before anything else. Then go back and re-gap the doors before the X braces.

Now that the doors are fitting good, re-fit the top in the proper fashion. Will probably require another 1/2 inch coming out of the chop to get rid of the boogers. Take time to make lots of measurements because it sure doesn't look like you can trust any of the previous bodyman's cuts. He may have cut in different places, or even different amounts side-to-side. When the top is now ready to re-fit, make lots of tacks and step back to re-measure.

You may have to fab a few sections from scratch to replace previously boogered sections. Or maybe you have a too-rusty parts body to steal chunks from.

I think the key to this whole job is leaving the body bolted to a square frame.

 

What i would do is try and find another roof and use it to "lengthen" the existing roof,use the back half of the roof you have and join the front part of the new roof in the middle someplace,that way you wont have to lean the windsheild back,also maybe chop it another 1/2 inch,so you dont have to work around the old welds,just cut them clean away.you will also need door tops to do a nice job on it too,the extra pieces cut down on the need for little strips to join it together.

 

I have another roof, but I was saving it for another chop. I should have enough pieces to do several though.

 

Root
I am sure that you already have good advice. For me to fix a bad chop would start with cutting it loose and seeinw what it required to get it right. maybe taking a little out of the long side or maybe just shimming the short side and filling it.

As for the roof itself, it was not always a common practice to cut up two roves to get the metal needed to fill it. Over the years I have seen a lot of them with a cross (+) cut in them and flat metal added then shaped to look good on the outside. Some by hammering some with lead and others with mud. Most guys used to figure that the headliner would cover what would show on the inside.

 

Use one of the other cabs, let somebody else figure it out!

 

Yep,
somebody else will learn something

 

I have pondered that heavily. I have some better cabs that would actually be less work, and I could chop it the amount and how I want.

 

Looks like one of his jobs before bondo already

 

I just got a digital inclinometer in the mail. This will at least tell me of the A pillars are at the same angle. Of course, we just got 3" of ice , so no power for who knows how long....

 

Inclinometer...a 'know it all' acquaintance of mine has one, (so do I)
Handy tool, surprised all we had previously were 'angle finders'...

He was demonstrating his unobtainable skills with his, to show me how he had calc'ed his rake.
I remained silent, as he set the instrument down on each rail, noting the difference.
I mentioned that the rails should be measured on level ground...they were just carelessly perched atop an old '35 tranny case and a couple of mis-matched milk crates.
He said the Inclinometer 'allowed for that'. (Gosh! It'll do all that???...I thought.)
I used to pay for baby sitters. Should have bought an Inclinometer...

 

If you decide you don't want to fix it, I might be interested. I have always wanted to chop something, or in this case, fix a botched chop.