Quick version: So Im painting an early bronco, limestone green metallic, base clear. Ive painted single stage in the past and the paint goes on thick, however this time Ive got 5 coats on what is photographed and its so transparent one could read newspaper through it! The black showing through is the base primer that the fender came in (once the high build primer was sanded it showed through). At this point I stopped so I dont use up all my product so only the jambs are sprayed. Exhibits: Long Version (for those who like to read ha) So Ive been prepping cars since I was a freshmen in highschool (about fourteen years ago) and admittedly only did it because in return my teacher/boss/neighbor helped me with my projects. So I know quite a bit about the prep side and recently decided I wanted to try my hand at refinishing a few cars and being able to have those skills doesnt hurt.. especially when I have multiple friends who are willing to pay me to paint their cars as well, if I end up being good at it. Now, while I have all this experience prepping, spraying paint is new to me (although not the hardest thing to figure out). What is getting me at the moment is the transparency of this base coat Im spraying. Now, I realize its best to have a solid base color to spray on top of but this color just acts like its WAY too thin. Its a nason paint, mixed 1:1 sprayed out of a devillbiss gun, ambient temp was about 50 today. Whats even more odd to me is when I stirred up the paint it looked very nice, stuck to the stirrer and just ..looked great. BUT, when I mix the appropriate thinner with the color it wont even show up on the stir stick! Just runs right off its so thin. So the big question Im wondering is: Am I an idiot and this is how base clear goes on and it literally takes a million coats? OR, did something happen during mixing and the paint isnt acting quite right? Yall I appreciate any help at all. -Webb
If the paint is correct out of the can and reduced correctly the color may require a specific tinted sealer. Also apply check hiding labels to help assure hiding.
Hey John, Thanks. I told the guy at the paint shop that it was my first job and that I wanted that color so he suggested the filler primer and sold me the primer color and the clear.. never mentioned a sealer. And of course with the single stage stuff I did we never worried about not having a uniform color to spray on top of. But, youll have to help me out. What are check hiding labels? Do you mean spot painting gray primer to get a uniform color base?
I agree. Perhaps a tinted primer/sealer would help, but doesn't explain the excessive transparency. This sounds silly, but did you really, REALLY mix up the Basecoat in the can it came in? Sometimes stuff really sticks to the bottom. Also, 50 is a little cool, so use the appropriate reducer. Maybe it's an underlying issue with the primer/prep? Keep us posted!
The paint companies offer them. They all call them something different. The PPG version are self adhesive approx. 1"x1" stickers with a black/white checkerboard pattern printed on them. You stick them on your masking tape or paper next to edges that are painted. Your color coats will cover them as you paint the car and when the checkerboard is no longer visible you know you have achieved hiding. I actually have a roll of tape with the checked pattern that I use now. I'll post info on that later today. Your paint shop guy may not know about them. Edit---- If a specific sealer is required the info should be noted along with the color formula. An inexperienced paint guy may not know this
Gotcha, that would be a nice addition! Definitely thought the temp as well, so I gave the paint plenty of time between coats to allow it to flash dry. I did stir and shake the base really well too after mentally noting the buildup on the bottom of the primer can. I know the paint wouldnt settle that bad but I was paranoid. The guy helping me, who also knows more about single stage, seems to think maybe the paint shop mixed the reducer in the base not thinking, so it was ready to shoot without the extra reducer. Because like I said, without reducer the paint sticks to a stirrer and covers and just looks like paint should...
Nason isn't the greatest paint, but it isn't the worst either. I've been running into certain colors being more transparent than what I've dealt with in the past - particularly pearls. I use PPG mostly (have shot Nason several times though). Two of the last 4 paint jobs I've done were blue pearls and both had the same issue. The first one was Nason the owner supplied....so I went and bought the same color in PPG and got the same result. The paint second paint job was PPG...and after about 5 coats I also stopped. Since the second I've been using a tinted sealer (PPG's VAP-9XX). I've posted about it before and it substantially cuts the color coats needed. I'm sure Dupont has something similar.
Maybe it IS ready to spray. The nearest paint store to me does silly stuff like that. And doesn't tell you. Or gives you the wrong ratio, etc. Try spraying a coat of what's in the can, unreduced and see what happens. Adjust your gun accordingly on a spray card or something similar.
As already noted, I suspect that your paint has been over-thinned, but I have seen paints that were very transparent. The first time I used RM's Miracryl I was shooting a Dodge pickup in the black metallic that came out on the Warlocks. After 4 coats it was still transparent. Later they started advising people using it to shoot 2 coats of solid black and then 2 coats of the black metallic. A similar plan might work with yours with 2 coats of a solid green non-metallic close to the color you are shooting. I would also recommend a coat of sealer before topcoating over the primer.
Thanks guys, and the coverage checkers would be a good idea in the future. The issue right now though is the thin paint. I do agree that it needs to be one color under the green, so I need to go back and spot paint some gray on some spots. But, I am also certain that something is up with the paint. I mean after 5 coats its just as transparent as candy paint.. so tomorrow Im going to try and shoot a bit without thinning and Il report back. Either way Il be doing some spot painting..
the paint supplier should be able to provide an S code for that color, that will be what you match the sealer to. s1 is white, s7 is black. there are colors in between or a formula to mix the sealer. see if the black primer you have has a ss7 on it somewhere.
Sounds and looks over thined. Most deffinately need the primer/sealer to be one color. Mixing most urethane primers 4/3/1 will give a good cover and seal the surface. Sealers also can be tinted. I use 4 X 6 spray pattles to shoot test finishes on. My paint store has them, white with a 1/2" black checker boarder up both sides. Depending on the color and the amount of flip/flop (tend to be more transperent) I will shoot one with untinted sealer, one with white (make the checker board go away) and one tinted with the color closest to the finished color. Now having said that, I find white or light grey primer colors work the best, give the most unform under coat and give the truest color to factory. I have used black sealer under the new black pearls with excellent results. I have strong feelings about temperature as well. I do not shoot under 65. Too much of a chance of moisture getting trapped under the paint and it just takes toooooooo long to kick. Just MHO. Forgot, BASF is my current product since Dupont has moved too far away from me.
I m not a huge fan of nason, it's kind of a low end paint. Most lower end paints are very translucent. With that being said, a sealer coat is a must to give it a uniform base to cover. If it were me I would spray it a little under reduced, like Maybe add a quart of unreduced paint to what you have there. Pair 5 or 6 coats on and try to get the shop temp up Above 60 for spraying.
The 1st pix looks like long sand scratches are still there. Another tip, if you go with this paint again paint (sealer) something else as a test. Note everything as you go to learn the characteristics of this brand. Maybe a YT clip to see if others have a demo.
I painted a PPG paint that looks like a very similar color. I used an epoxy sealer and put on several coats to get uniform color. So my thoughts. Need a sealer coat and the Nason paint may not cover as well as a PPG. Nice color in the end. When you start spraying the paint again, be careful to get the metallic to lay right. I had mine looking pretty good and cleared it too soon. Striping of the metallic came through and I re-sprayed a couple of panels. Neal
Slammed: I think what youre seeing is the tape edge, thats the drivers side rocker panel and only a small part of the inside edge is getting painted. Guys answer this silly question before I run to the shop. DO I need to sand the paint Ive already put on to lay more on top or do I just need to wipe it down a few times?
I would have thrown a sealer down first before your base. Also what grade did you finish to after primer and before the base?
As in what grit paper did I finish with? 400 wet , blown off twice, wiped with solvent twice, and wiped with tack cloth twice. After spot painting with gray primer and inspecting some spots with a nice gray base I decided its probably a mix of two things. Nason paint just isnt the best and the color I have doesnt cover well.. AND I wasnt prepared to have a flawless base to shoot my color over.
So, I just got done. It didnt take nearly as much extra effort as Id anticipated. And for the trouble here are some pics! Only an hour old at this point so it should settle a bit more... So, after fiddling around with everything I came to two conclusions. 1: Im new and apparently just didnt stir the base as much as I thought I had, so when I thinned it.. it WAS too thinned. But the paint wasnt at fault. 2: I did need to go back and spot paint some places because even though the paint went on and covered pretty well after I mixed it for a solid five minutes it still wouldnt have covered up Black AND Gray. Thanks for allowing me to pick your brains today guys! I appreciate it, this forum is full of exactly the knowledge I need most times.
I'm a week late getting back to your question about recoating, but for future reference read the information on the cans (one more reason to not spill paint all over the directions). Depending on whether or not the paint uses a 2 part hardening system (almost all do now) normally if the paint has set up hard (usually within 4 to 6 hrs without baking), they will advise you to re-sand it. If you are putting another 3-4 coats on it, I would wet sand with 400 again. The exception to that would be the old lacquers which would re-melt into the finish with the lacquer thinners, but not something you would typically find today. If you are still playing with air dry enamels without hardeners (Tremclad is notoriously bad for this but the guys using it will try to tell you otherwise) it will have to set up and evaporate for a couple weeks before you can re-sand and re-coat it.
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