Hot Rods The 56 buick wagon wont start again?

I recognize the problem. I am also a Mass approved vocational electricity/electronics instructor with some years of trying to get high school kids to understand electrons and how to make them do what you want them to do.

I have seen a lot of his other posts.

Sounds like an ultimatum.
I would prefer to just watch from the sidelines and not say anything unless I see some gross violation of fundamental electrical law that is going to cost Bruce a lot of extra time.

 

That'd be a perfect way to help.
Personally I'd prefer to hang out with Bruce in his garage and help him get thru this. Unfortunately I can't do that.
Not sure why anything I said feels like an Ultimatum to you.
Ultimatums are demands backed by threats , if I gave such an impression it certainly was not intended.

 

Meanwhile, what we wait for are results from simple tests, that we try to word so that Bruce can give us a reading, which will tell us if the solenoid is sending voltage out a stud and up some wire, to somewhere, that Bruce can find, with THE SOLE PURPOSE of getting all available battery voltage to coil + during cranking.

 

I would prefer to just watch from the sidelines and not say anything unless I see some gross violation of fundamental electrical law that is going to cost Bruce a lot of extra time.[/QUOTE]

I think you just like to argue and that everybody else is stupid, which JUST AIN'T SO.

 

OK 31Vicky and Rfraze .I took off both wires at the coil.I turn the key to on, and checked each wire .1 had no voltage and the other 1 had 12.5. Then I cranked her over and the reading on the 1 wire was 10.1 Bruce.

 

Try to be more descriptive in language and label the wires then refer to them as such.
Maybe something like ,,,,, wire #1 is _____ in color and goes from ______ to ______ with key on has ______ voltage. And then the same for the other.

Pain in the ass but since we ain't standing next to you how else are we gonna be able to tell

 

To be fair here, don't forget Buzzard. He has been suggesting this same test for a while. The only part of this test you have not done before is take the wires off the coil, then test each.

Bruce, Thanks for the results. Please read your previous post and try to imagine how difficult it is to understand which wire you are talking about at any given moment. We have found that we have to be very explicit. Could you please return the favor. You only have two wires here and one comes from ballast resistor.

 

Ok let me go down and recheck and will let you know ThanksBruce.

 

Rfraze, I know it must be hard with you not being here and me a chuckle head trying to tell you stuff. Let me get some picture and post them and I will explain what I did. Heading down to the shop now .Thanks Bruce.

 

Damn all the pictures with the readings came out too blurry to make out i was too close trying to take a picture while cranking her over. .I may have to let my wife try and take some pictures while I crank her over and show you all whats what. The only thing that came out was a picture of the starter.Bruce .

 

I still cant trace that little yellow wire{at the j box} to see where is goes to yet. I know I only have one wire going to the coil from the ballest restor. Isnt that little yellow wire from the j box suppose to run to the coil too?Bruce.

 

On the diagram-
Yellow wire goes from starter to junction block then junction block to coil.

 

That looks like the yellow wire that should go to junction block in pic of starter. (I hope the battery cable end is NOT touching that yellow wire stud.) It looks to be on the proper solenoid lug (per diagram) Do we get to disconnect the wires at j. box yet and test to see if solenoid is powering up yellow wire from starter during cranking? Just do it. You should be getting near battery voltage at the end of that wire during cranking (while disconnected from j. box).
How about making notes like Vick suggested along with the pics just in case pics go bad.

 

Guys I think that is one of the problems.The yellow wire from the j box isn't hooked up to the coil. Can I run a jumper wire from the j box to the +side of the coil.To test for power? Like I said I am going to see if I can get some help posting pictures and information on all the wires you wanted me to test. Bruce.

 

Sure you can test it at the junction block.
Since you have no idea where the wire is going, make sure wires are disconnected for accuracy and not catching back feed. Test the wires independent of each other.
If you get voltage at junction block wires when cranking , note it the voltage.
If no voltage, then the next place to test would be right at the starters post - for the yellow wire that goes between the starter and junction block. Note voltage there.

 

Bruce, Could you just tell us what the reading is at the disconnected wires at the j box during cranking? You're F'n killing us here!!!!!!! We don't care about a picture and you do not have to trace ANYTHING. Take off the nut and test the wire coming up from the starter, make a note of voltage (or none), test again while cranking, write it down, and let us know.

 

Hold it up... I gotta get a fresh batch of popcorn going...

 

Here is the voltage while cranking on the yellow wire coming up from the starter.Bruce.

 

Where are you measuring this?
Is that wire disconnected and you're measuring only that wire?

Is your cranking voltage at battery still 12.66?


Bruce, you gotta be really really descriptive in your posts. I can't stress that enough. The last few have not been what anyone would consider descriptive. Thanks for the pic but a picture of a meter doesn't help. Yes typing out the descriptive language is a pain but that's the only way to get this done over the Internet.

Some things probably don't make sense to you, but they are key clues to what's happening.

For instance this last post can mean that your experiencing voltage drop or a simple back feed. Your description helps determine that.

 

Bruce,there are quite a few Hambers in and around the Sevierville, Tennessee area.

Maybe you can offer some beer & pizza for a hour or so of help. HRP

 

If you indeed have 10.21 volts at the yellow wire from the starter solenoid while cranking, then check at the battery connection at the starter solenoid. If still 10.21 volts, then you might have a bad battery lead from the battery to starter solenoid. If the voltage at the battery connection of the starter solenoid is higher than 10.21 volts, then I would replace the starter solenoid with a new one.

 

d2Willys I will check it at the starter .Thanks.Bruce.

 

31Vicky yes the battery is still 12.66, I took the yellow wire off the j box that come up from the starter and put the meter to it and cranked it over it read 10.3 volts. The little yellow wire {which I think is the by pass wire} I took off the j box and with key on it measured 12.3 volts then measured it while cranking it over and it read 6.66 volts .Does that make sense? Bruce.

 

No further testing or replies til after Super Bowl. Then back to our regular programing.

 

Make sense - yes and no.
The no needs further investigation.

No parts-
was both wires disconnected at coil as I stated above? If disconnected then the wires are connected incorrectly someplace and you need to find that. The junction block wire is to go to the coil. Something is getting voltage and it shouldn't be.

If not disconnected at coil there's about to be a goose chase for improper wiring.

See how disconnecting the wires also separates the problems ?

Yes parts -
You have some evsessive "voltage drop" between the battery and the wire from starter to junction block- which ultimately ends at the coil. This is the resistor bypass. The most likely culprit is the internals of the solenoid BUT every part of the chain can cause it too. Basically the input voltage needs to equal the output voltage. What goes in must come out. From your tests we know that you have 12.66 available (or going in) and 10. 3 delivered (or coming out)

It's very easy to test and find the voltage drop. You simply place the leads of the meter on either end of what you want to test and observe the readings. You can check any component or cable or switch this way, both ground and positive.

Directly at battery you had a cranking voltage of 12.66 and in yellow wire from starter to junction block @ junction block you had cranking voltage of 10.3. A difference of 2.3 volts. If you hook up the leads at + battery post and yellow wire from starter to junction block @ junction block your meter should read 2.3 volts while cranking, that's your voltage drop. Your mission is to find the loss of voltage. It can be anywhere and it can be cumulative meaning the the meter will read the total of a the whole bunch in the loop. But as I said the most likely its the starter solenoids internals.

Take your meter leads to the starter. put red one on the large stud for the battery cable and the black one on the small post for yellow wire. Get a reading there while cranking. Just to double check, leave the red one on cable stud and place the black one to ground and crank, note voltage. Move the red one to the small post that yellow wire from starter to junction block and crank , note voltage. - if the difference here is a bit over 2 volts then you've found the trouble inside the starter solenoid. If the difference is not quite 2 volts there is another problem also.

 

This is from the "meter thread"
Take time to expand and read it.

 

Can somebody close to this fella go help him? Hell, I'll pay for the beer and pizza, just get the damn thing running.

 

That's a great plan