What defines a Speedster ?

I have been gathering parts for a while, and am thinking about putting one together with what I have collected.

I have spent hours on NWVS.org and google.

It seems most are T based. I am looking at using a 1928 Model A base, and building a boat tail out of some hoods.

is a dropped front axle a nono? spring over only?
must it have a banger? (I am planning on a 2.3 ford 4cyl w/4 speed)
Wire wheels only? or are steels ok? moons disks?

I would really like to modify the frame to have it sit lower as well, either sweeping or Z-ing it to get a lower stance, ok? or bad idea?

Will I end up with a "speedster" or "track roadster" or "jalopy" or a POS ?

 

It looks a lot like all the other early Porsches but it's a roadster with a really ill fitting rag top.

Get a copy of "Model T Speed Secrets" "The fast Ford handbook" by Murray Fahnestock
isbn-0-911160-17-s
It's got all the frame drops, suicide front ends, body plans and OHC banger conversions used in the '20's

 

Generally speaking the practise of creating a speedster was started in the era of the Model T, mostly because there were plenty around, parts availabilityand enginuity led to guys wanting to make them go faster. I think most would agree it was the start of the hot rod modified car hobby. The idea was to take what you had and make it look like one of the expensive cars of the day like the Stutz Bearcat etc. Most were older than 1930 and various brands were made into speedsters.but Fords were the most popular. They held Model T only speedster races around here well into the forties. There are some really interesting book reprints from the era that show lots of old timey speed secrets.

 

Someone who drives fast.

 

Basically any early automobile stripped of it unnecessary pieces to creat a lighter more agile vehicle, for speed trials, races, and also trasnportation. Depending on driving conditions, may or may not have retained fenders. Model T's and Model A's, but other vehicles were modified as well.

Lotsa defiitions, your money your time your car build it.

 

It's an interesting question. The NWVS site gives a good idea how especially some speedsters are very similar in concept to European specials. I mean the low-slung "vintage" ones rather than the monocled Edwardian ones or the weird modern-carriage-driving stripped-down ones. Both they and specials are basically a case of keeping the stock basic engine and the stock basic frame, modifying both for performance, and losing the stock body in favour of something lighter and more rakish.

Both are at their most interesting when based on something unlikely.

 

We had speedster races where I am also, the only reason I know this is because I've seen a picture circa 1920's. It must have been a big circuit because one of the cars said Erie PA on the side, thats about 100+ miles away from the fairgrounds.

I have all the parts to build an aluminum bodied boat tail speedster using 1930 and older parts. I Lost interest so I tried to sell it all. So far no one wants any of it, I guess i'll build it up this winter.

I guess it depends on your definition of a speedster, build what you want. Theres a ton of speedster threads on here.

 

To answer your specifics:

If you accept my above view of the close affinity between speedsters and specials, it opens up a lot of suspension possibilities, as specials really were a sort of road-race suspension laboratory in the '50s. I really enjoy the ones that took solid-axle systems to extremes, so we might be looking at a straight tube running ahead of a grille shell dropped between the rails of an unbobbed A frame that is either swept up or reverse-raked to work with an underslung rear axle. I think all that is within the broad idiom.

Boattail bodies are cool but there are alternatives, like the rounded beetleback, which are perhaps more historically true. I'd not forget the open tourer, either: like a short two-door phaeton, perhaps with cut-down doors, perhaps made in simple aluminium. It isn't seen that often on modern speedsters, but it's a good, light, practical, multi-purpose body. Take a look at British stuff like Frazer-Nashes, low-chassis Invictas, and their ilk. Either way, keep in mind that all of this is about keeping weight down, so a simpler shape in sheet aluminium - or fabric over a timber frame! - more looks the part than a more complex composition of compound curves made out of mass-produced sheetmetal welded together.

"Lotsa defiitions, your money your time your car build it." Indeed, but we're not about rules here but about knowing what we mean by the terms we use. With a Ford 2.3 and a '29 frame it might not be a strict speedster, but it might certainly be unmistakably speedsterish, which I submit is enough to have fun with.

 

this one is real cool

 

I think if you intend to race one in the hill climbs or tour it on some of the tours that the ones in the PNW take every year they like you to have an old four banger in it but your plan sounds like a lot of fun. I've been gathering parts for what probably amounts to a special with a flathead six and a boat tail body based on a 1919 Buick cowl and a bunch of sheet metal from behind the barn.

 

If I'm not mistaken that's an actual Bugatti Type 35 body on a narrowed Model A frame.

The Model A wheels somehow suit it, though I'm partial to Rudge-type wires for this sort of thing. The current plan for the front wheels on my '31 project consists of 18" motorcycle hoops laced to MGB centres, on MGB hubs, on early Ford spindles. It's really going into a grey area between hot rod, special, phantom coachbuilt classic, and a lot of other stuff.

 

thanks for your input.

my collection of parts include '47 ford suspension and axles, '28 roadster cowl, frame, grilleshell, and some '40 ford hoods.

My end result will be kinda like this but riding lower


and with different wheels

 

"it might not be a strict speedster, but it might certainly be unmistakably speedsterish, which I submit is enough to have fun with. "

I like this, I just don't want to be the dork who shows up and says Check out my speedster, and everyone goes---that's not a speedster <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

 

Since you've checked out NWVS, you can see that there's quite a bit of variation AND liberty in how they use the term "speedster".

In my mind, it would have a lightweight 2 seater body (boattail, beetleback, etc), may or may have fenders (I've seen none, motorcycle, wing-type, and stock and any configuration can work if done right), and sit a bit lower than normal.

When I first joined the HAMB, I was going to use a Quad4 engine and make a poor man's Fronty- since then, then Quad has gone to a good friend, and I'm up my ears in 20's Chevrolet engines...

It's a wonderful illness


Post some pics of what you have and maybe a mock up of what you're going after- I'm sure that you'll get LOTS of advice... and most of it helpful

 

Is it time for a Speedster Social Group, seems to be some simmering interest, and could be time for speedsters to reafirm there status as progenitor of the whole hot rodding scene. T's A's Overlands, Oaklands, Marmons, Dueseys, America La France, Pontiacs, Chevies, Oldsmobiles, Chryslers, and even vehicles with foreign origins.

Lets see whats out there in HAMB land from piles o parts to done and run.

 

it appears there is a speedsters one http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/group.php?groupid=657

My vision would be a body like the red car, but with a sweep in the rails on the front around 3-4 inches, rear lowered to match, possibly a bit longer in the hood area, and 16" steel wheels

 

Did a quick search the other night and didn't come up with that, but good to know it there, not much traffic though.

Funny though I fellow said his grandfather made on in the 20's using a wheelbarrow body and trimed it down to make a cowl, II had that thought as I was saydreaming mine. Maybe 2 of those bigger contractor jobs welded together. Depending on the shape you could use the hear Part up right for the cowl and then the trimed off front part for a basis for the seats.

 

There's a post-war speedster with a V-8 listed in the classifieds right now http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=636756&highlight=speedster

Mine started life on a T-platform, and then sometime after the war was switched to a Willys frame with a Plymouth 6. I'm told the owner boasted he could do 90mph. That engine was long gone when I found it, and I'm using a Model A banger.

 

Who's the handsome guy running around in that?

BTW, that one has a '41 Ford hood for a tail (pie cut down the center to narrow it). The hood is stock '28/29. The firewall and floor are 3/4" plywood, the dash is made of oak, the cowl and under the tail are sheet steel cut and bent to fit. The chassis is stock 1928 except for the engine which is a mildly hopped up '32-34 Model B. It's got a poly tank under the tail.

It sits high only because I didn't want to mess with the mechanical brakes and hydraulics were out of my budget.

As far as what makes a speedster . . it's really whatever you call it. I personally like the looks of the tall tires, especially if it's low. I'd at least stick with narrow bias ply tires to get the right look.

 

I do dig yours BangerMatt. The body is very close to the look I am going for, but different chassis stuff.

I am getting the idea that there no "rules" which is good. I am planning on tall skinny tires, the wide wheels just don't look right at all. I was wondering if 16" Moon disks would be wrong...or just run painted wheels?

I think the dropped and drilled I beam I have hanging on the wall would not fit the look, but the stock '47 axle would look good.

it will be a while before I begin building it, but I want to keep my focus while I build it in my head

 

How about this for an early speedster?

http://www.old-picture.com/united-states-history-1900s---1930s/Washington-Cootie-parked-racing.htm

And get a load of the hard boiled egg behind the wheel.

 

That one in the classifieds is about 30 miles south of me. Thats an interesting build, but a bit north of my finances.

 

my grandpa in his "Lincoln Pup" and his little Dodge roadster he dated my grandma in....about 1925 or 26....mom came along in 1927....

 

I guss the pictures on this site are copy righted as you cant copy and past the properties, but is ya got a couple of days, you might want to check out the stuff pictured. Just might be able to pull up some Body work, seating options, drive trains, and suspension idead along the way.

http://theoldmotor.com/?category_name=automobileracing18941942

 

Speedster = 356 Porsche
Shoebox = early 50s Ford
Tri-Five = 55,56, and 57 Chevies

 

That was built from plans that were published somewhere at the time. A few others have come up on the HAMB that were built according to the same pattern. For instance, this:

I always thought it'd look better with a Deuce shell!

 

good stuff there, thanks

I am getting the feeling tall skinny tires are the only way to go.

BTW the 1st Porsche speedster joke was funny, i'm over it now...

 

There's always a way:

Some cool Edwardian Monstrosities on the first page ...

 

You can find wheels pretty easily- Ford A or T for wires and 20's Chevrolet for discs are probably the least expensive route. They are constantly on Espay and, with patience, you can get a good set.

 

That's an MI Sportster built from plans in Mechanix Illustrated November 1951 edition. How to make a snappy sports car out of your dowdy old 32 Ford for $500.

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2010/05/18/build-this-100-mph-sports-car-for-under-500/