TIRES, white wall tech

[kustumizer]

I dunno if anybody knows this already. Wide white walls? Why buy them when you can make them. No paint, grindin. Buy skinny whitewalls, the take a sander and sand the black off around the white wall, be careful though, underneath the white there is more black. You can make your whitewalls about 2 inches or so wider by doing this. The process is kinda like buffing. Practice on some spare tires and you will soon get the hang of it. It cheaper then buying wide whites!! Here are some pics of cars that have it done to it!!

[kustumizer]

Heres another rod woth them grinded out!!

[kustumizer]

heres my first car!!you can put wide whites on anything. I grinded these whitewalls out too!!

[Boones]

I have a set of thin whites, will have to try. What are you using to sand and what grit?

[kustumizer]

i use a really old sander/polisher. I use maybe 40 grit or so, using that u can see scratches in the white wall. You can probably use any grit you would like it would just take longer. You can also do this on white lettered tires!!! Nate

[Ron]

I seen a truck at James Dean this year that he did the same thing. His looked a little rough but he said he did not spend much time on them. But from a distance they looked ok.

[briggs&strattonChev]

what if the white wall is raised? Can you sand it flush and will it still have white? Do you just sand from the inside edge and inward, or the outside too? How thick is the white inderneath the black?

DAMN this is cool if it will actually work for me, Thanks!

by the way, I HATE that car and LIKE it at the same time just cause of the idea and comedy, those functional pipes and spots?

[ESnacky6]

got any more pics of that first car..??

[kustumizer]

When you sand the white wall you sand the raised whitewall and sand them together i geuss you can say. I start on the black. The white is not that thick underneath the black so dont keep it in one place at a time. Yuo will learn if you practice. Thats my vw golf, it had all white fur and leapord interior! I dont have it anymore sold it. Nate

[kustumizer]

here some more pics of that merc. Its my friends Dave Paras out of mass!! Nate

[kustumizer]

I got the chance to drive this. It has a 350 with a 4 speed standard!! One of my favs!! Nate

[kustumizer]

i have more, but heres the last one ill post!! Nate

[TINGLER]

Man, that sounds preeety cool.
Can you possibly take some pics of the process?
Maybe with some pics of the tools involved? I can figure it out from what you have written, but It would be easier if you SHOWED me.

Cool post.
JT.

[kustumizer]

i can but i would have to get my sisters digital camera, and that would be a few days. Pm me whoever wants pics and ill try to get some to you!! Nate

[Tim]

this has come up a few times before, i was thinking someone brought up some saftey issue??? and i think there are some ppl that havesome sort of jig and do this professionaly.

if you can do it safely -- spose with out digging to deep is the only problem??-- then yeah its a great deal

later
tim

[kustumizer]

You probably only take out a 1/16 or 1/8 of rubber. I know guys hwo have been doing this since the 50s and never had safety issues!! So i dont kno why there is a safety issue!! Thanks for your input Nate

[Mongo]

I might have to give this one a try.

[kustumizer]

Its very simple and easy once you get used to it. I can do 1 tire in about 10 minutes now. Its ALOT cheaper too, thats why i like it!! Nate

[Mongo]

Any thing I can do to save $$$ is great.

[Roothawg]

So how do get your outer line to be crisp on the www?
Just wondering if you tape it off or have a template?

[Petejoe]

I really don't quite understand. The way I understand this is.. please correct me if I'm wrong. You get a thin white walled tire, and take a grinder to the black edges around the whitewall?? Is there white under the black at that area?? How do you keep the edges straight and smooth looking?? Could you please post more pics of that black 35..cool car! Could you do a step by step with pics? that'll be cool.

[Deyomatic]

Alot of the ones I see the paint cracks and looks really shitty after awhile. What kind of paint do you use?

[briggs&strattonChev]

[ QUOTE ]
What kind of paint do you use?



[/ QUOTE ]

WHAT paint?? there isnt any paint involved

Petejoe: I believe you just grind past where the rim covers so a nice line isnt needed, but I could be wrong

[Tim]

yeah thres white under the black to who ever asked.

and as far as a nice crisp line, i think he was asking about the out edge;)

good topic keep it going

[SwitchBlade327]

so with the raised skinny whitewall, theres enough white underthere to sand deep enough so it's smooth? what kind of sander? DA, Random Orbital? If I know exactly what i need to do I'll go get a shitty roller ww and give it a shot. Seems like you'd go through alot of paper even if you use the coarse shit.

[Tcoupe]

Wonder If you could just drive with your tires against the curb for awhile...just kidding http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Good tip I will have to try that, I remember seeing a show some time ago that I believe stated all tires are white to begin with, then coated in black to keep em from lookin cruddy from dirt and road junk...ever seen all white tires?

[fordiac]

do you just leave the outside line where it is, and take off towards the rim?

[gettingreasy]

There's a guy here in Phoenix that cuts tires, does some nice work, I think Scooter's pickup has cut ww's on it.
-Jesse

[kustumizer]

Ill try to get some pics tonight, and post them for you guys. The entire tire is not white, there is only a certain amount of white underneath the black and if you grind the black off the top of the white it will give you a nice line. The sander i use is very old, I dont use paper i use disc. It doesnt gum up at all! Ill try to get some pisc tonight and post them for you guys to check out step by step!!Nate

[Jester]

What about black wall tires? Are they white underneth the black as well?

[kustumizer]

No, blackwhall tires dont have white underneath them. Any tire that has white on it, unless its painted, this can be done too!! Nate

[Josh]

Cant wait to see some pics. I'm ready to try this!

[MBL]

I have heard of this many times but I don't think I have seen it done....or at least I never knew if it had been. Is this something that you do when the tyre is on the wheel and inflated? Maybe thats a stupid question....if that works out well....Then I know what I'll be doing on the packard...I picked up some used WWW Radials and they got yellow just sitting there. Argh!
Tim
MBL

[Petejoe]

I am looking forward to the step by step, I just don't understand how the outside edge can be kept straight and sharp using the grinder. Boy if this stuff works it'll be the shits.
Here's info Fellow hamber Fat ASS whitewalls sent to me a while back on painting the white colors, hopefully he will read this and will be able to add to the info.
[ QUOTE ]
Check your local hardware store. I did my tires when I lived in Fremont Ca. and bought the spray from Dales hardware. Now that I'm in Missouri, Lowes has it in the spray paint section. They don't stock the white here, but will order it in for me. I'm going to buy a case (6 spray cans I think) I also checked Home Depot in Turlock Ca. a few weeks ago, and they carry it also. You can do four tires with two cans if you are carefull. I ground my sidewalls flat, but didn't go through the rubber. I also used a factory line close to the tread as a stopping point. To get them really white, a thin coat of white upholstery dye works good. I've also done some touch up with white shoe polish. Let me know if you need anything else advise wise.

[/ QUOTE ]

[53choptop]

In my experience, the strightest white wall line I have done are Sears Guardsman tires, but as far as getting the line straight you really can't unless you have a really good eye and steady hands, the only way I found you can do is sand all the way to where the white wall ends and hope the line is straight. here are my tires done that way...

What tires do you guys use?

[kustumizer]

Ill take some pics tonight of the process and post them! i sand until the whitewall ends and it is a straight line except for 1 tiny litlle spot which ill post tonight. Im in school right now, so ill post them around 7:00 eastern time tonight. I do it on any tires. I never had any trouble yet with the tire brand!! Nate

[lownslow]

how about a close up shot of the tire ....so we can see what it looks like ....

[kustumizer]

ill definately take some up close shots. Any specific pics anybody wants? Nate

[Tcoupe]

I tried it this morning on an old tire just to see what happens...I used an angle ginder with an 80 grit sanding disk, dont do this, its to many rpms...just barly skimming the black and the shit started to gum up, I think lower rpms and steady movement would be the ideal way to go about it.

[kustumizer]

i agree my sander is reallylow rpms. A buffer is perfect if you get a sanding disc attachment since you can adjust the speeds! Ill take a pic of the sander/polisher i use tonight!! Nate

[kustumizer]

Heres the pics you guys were asking for. There not the best but you can get the idea from them. Heres a spare tire i had. Its a 13 inch tire with a 1/2 inch whitewall.

[kustumizer]

Heres the sander i used, i used 50 grit because thats all i had! It works good, doesnt have variable speeds and is old but does the job!!

[kustumizer]

The first thing i do is grind down the whitewall that is sticking up almost flush with the black then i work from the bottom to the top, moving the sander always never stopping with it! You can do tires on rims if you want to take the risk of harming them!

[kustumizer]

Once the black starts to come off, the white only goes to a certain point to leave that nice clean edge of the whitewall!

[kustumizer]

Heres some close ups of the tire!

[fordiac]

thanks for the pics.

i suppose if you want a narrower WW, you could leave the existing outer edge where it is and go inward towards the rim

i will definately practice that on some of the scrap tires I have.

I think that this process would also be good to eliminate the lettering off the tire if you want the smooth blackwall look.

[kustumizer]

Heres another pic. Just practice, its wicked easy after a few tires!! Nate

[kustumizer]

Heres how much wider it is than the normal whitewall!!!! Nate

[burger]

This thread will change people's lives.

[zman]

My experience doing it was to put the rear up on jack stands and let the car idle. Take a piece of sandpaper on a block and go at on the car. It's a lot easier to get it even around the edges. I was planning on making some 16" WWW's this way.

[kustumizer]

i found 1 more pic of a car with the whitewalls ground out!! Nate

[Rocknrod]

Wonder how much strength ya take outa the sidewall http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[MichaelDorman]

Your not taking any streangth out of the side wall. You are removing only a very small amout of material from the side wall cap, 1/32-1/16 tops. you are not taking anything from the innner structure. Remember this cap would otherwise be removed from a tire in the normal processing of a wide white wall. I have seen the manufaturing of WWW tires and the process they used was exactly the same as shown here.

[Rocknrod]

That would make sense...

Kinda makes ya wonder why racers arent pulling a couple pounds off of the car running wide whites... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Rocky]

You wouldn't take any strength outa the tire by merely removing a little rubber. The strength comes from the plies and steel belts inside the tire carcass, not from the covering.

[hatch]

Back in the eighties when whitewalls were on all the cars, I bought a whitewall cutting machine. It was portable, so I traveled to used car dealerships and touched up their inventory. I could rematch the mismatched whites on their junkers or reface the existing curb damaged tire. I could also add a whitewall to a blackwall tire with a roller bottle and liquid butyl rubber. I stayed quite busy and it always drew a crowd when I worked. Grinding the tire took a very little amount of rubber off and didn't affect the sidewall because I never cut deeper than the existing whitewall area. One thing that can't be done on widening whites it to take the whitewall all the way to the rim. At least I've never come across a tire that would let me do that. Narrow white tires don't have underlying white all the way to the rim.

I think the name of the people who made the machine was AA tirefinishers in Louisiana near New Orleans. I sold the machine a year or so ago to a Hamber in texas....forgot his name though.

So...bottom line...yes it's safe, if you are careful...but go ahead and "cut em deep" on your death rod if you feel the need for excitement......hatch

[scoop]

This is funny I was just trying this in my shop,I was using a angle grinder,can't really control the amount of material ya take off and it was uneven.I'm gonna try it with my random orbital sander tommorrow.Coker will probably have a serious dip in sales from this post hahahaha!!!!

[kustumizer]

Yeah it took me alot of practice, my first tires i did looked like crap. I wouldnt recomend using a angle grinder way to high speed, like said earlier! You just have to have the eye for it to make it all even. Practice makes perfect i geuss!!! Nate

[MercMan1951]

I'm sure this works, but I am skeptical about the way they would look up close. 40-50 grit would leave a rough surface, and not shiny like true wide whites. If it's rough, that means it will attract dirt as well, and seems like you'd spend an awful lot of time cleaning them on a daily ride. I wonder if anyone has tried going back with progressively finer grits, say after the initial 40 grit to remove the rubber, going back with 150, 240, etc...maybe on a DA? I bet with some work you could get them to be slick. Maybe even rub them??? Hmmm. I've always believed I could rub anything out, but I never thought of a tire...

[poncho]

i tried it today at work..i found a old tire and hit it with 80 grit on my bondo buster!!i found it worked the best,easy to control..and in about 5 mins i had a big fat ass white wall on a 13 inch tire!!the tire was mounted and inflated,and i got a real nice strait line...thanks for opening my eyes http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif..my '62 poncho will be rollin' fat ass whites by sunday!!this thread rules!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif....craig

[kustumizer]

Mercman, be carefull when you go down with the finer grits, the white underneath the black is very very thin and can be burned thru very easy. You may see some scrathes up close too but i think its good for a driver and its better than paying a crap load for cokers ans tuff. Tell us how it comes out when you go with the finer grits? Poncho, post some pics of your rides with the new whites!! Nate

[AHotRod]

Unbelievable....butt way Cool.

[PBRmeASAP]

damn cool post! gotta grab a few junk tires tomorrow and practice, since i'm so cheap and the car has new narrow whites, couldn't justify buying new tires, but wanted ww's. Nate you kick ass, thanks for the post

[kustumizer]

Kool. Thanks Nate

[Petejoe]

Nate thanks for this post and the work you put into it. It's totally cool! Talk about a money saver for us poor guys.Now we need to come up a machine or some kind of template device that will grind these with repetitive control and follow a fine edge with a smooth finish. I am going to try this too.

[briggs&strattonChev]

DUDE, you RULE. My dad has a variable speed buffer that im gonna try this with

KUSTOMIZER for PRES!!!!!!

[Jim At KOA]

Whitewallsplus.com sells a wide white that the same thing was done on. Except after they grind down to the white they apply an additional whitewall overlay. I have seen them that were over 3 years old and driven a lot and they are still pure white. I also have them on my radical '49 Lincoln Cosmopolitan.

[Michigan Rick]

A year or so this same topic came up. Someone look in their older issues of CK Deluxe. They had an article about the cutting technique Hatch was talking about ....

Have fun........WWW's Rule

[roadstar]

I'm an old guy (well not that old) and I can deffanatly afford to buy new ww, but this post is great.

[gettingreasy]

ya I remember that article in CkDeluxe, it just showed him doing it, never what the machine looked like. I wish someone had some pics of the machine so we could make our own. I still want to put double pinstripe white walls on something I own one day.
-Jesse

[kustumizer]

Kool, glad ypu guys enjoy it!!! Nate

[MBL]

I am so gonna do this when I get the tranny squared away in the Packard....now could you use a finer grit and get a smoother appearence...which would take longer to do? Just a thought.
Tim
MBL

[kustumizer]

you can definately move down to a finer grit,like you said it will just take longer to cut thru the rubber!! Nate

[Josh]

Nate. Youre th MAN! You just saved me $600.00. I'm happy.

[MBL]

Now just for curiosity sake....will this also be the case on bias ply tyres? Or only radials?
Tim
MBL

[hatch]

Here's an old pic of me "on site" cutting whites. The rear is done and I'm starting on the front....The machine sat under the wheel and rotated it slowly while a small motorized cutting head did the cutting. The head was movable and you could change the cutting wheels to different size cuts.

[Kustm52]

Well, thought I would throw my $.02 in here....I had a set cut here locally in B'ham. There's a guy with a used tire store, (in the part of town you don't get out of your vehicle without a gun on you!) that makes a good living doing this. He has an old stationary machine that inflates the tire on a drum, then slowly rotates it as the cutting head does the work. He then applies some tiype of liquid rubber to the cut area....but it cracks an looks like crap two week later. His machine will only cut up to 1.5" whitwalls, and starts about 3/4" from the rim. I tried doing a set manually, and the problem I had was the outer edge of the white was not even. It's also VERY easy to dig into the tire while you are cutting...I was using a air powered buffer (similiar to a die grinder) with a wheeel on it that looks like a scotchbrite pad. This was given to me by a guy who works at a BF Goodrich plant here, that is what they use to clean up the sidewalls after the tires come out of the mold. Maybe I just need to get some used tires and practice...with the locuk I've had with Coker and Diamondback maybe this is the way to go...

Brian

[kustumizer]

Ive never done this on bias plys but i wouldnt see why it wouldnt work! The main thing is to practice on crappy tires and you will get better at it. My first few tires sucked!! Now they look pretty good i think. Glad i could help!! Nate

[kustumizer]

Anybody have any pics of the cutting heads there talking about to see? Nate

[Mongo]

Will I tried it , and it worked, cool: . I smell like burnt rubber now but it was worth it.I am going to try and post a pic with this of a before and after, here goes.

[Mongo]

It's not purfect , but for my first try I thought it was pretty good.I need to try it a few more times before I do my new ones. I used a 4"grinder with an 80 grit sandpaper disc.

[kustumizer]

Kool, just keep on practicing!! Nate

[Elrusto]

I tried it! All I can say is I need alot more practice. Mine were far from pretty. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[SwitchBlade327]

what grit did you use elrust? I'm thinking about givin it a shot, and want to see how other people are doing it and what they're using.

[Dat Dirty Rat]

Kustomizer- You ROCK holmes!..Great post! I was just asking about this...Dirty

[Elrusto]

I used 80 grit. It was smooth but my un-steady hand and lack of technique left some gouges in it.

[kustombuilder]

[ QUOTE ]
I remember seeing a show some time ago that I believe stated all tires are white to begin with, then coated in black to keep em from lookin cruddy from dirt and road junk...ever seen all white tires?

[/ QUOTE ]

i have'nt read the whole post yet so forgive me if this has been answered allready. the rubber the tires are made from is naturaly white, they add carbon to it to make it black (at least originaly thats how they did it). i have seen all white tires on some of the earliest automobiles.

[kustumizer]

Im not sure about that one, but im sure it was done. I dont think they do it any more though!! Nate

[Tim]

dunno about car tires but i know they have all white motorcycle tires

tim

[Crankshaft Sid]

Only for really old cars...

http://www.coker.com/images/big/44.gif

[kustombuilder]

[ QUOTE ]
Im not sure about that one, but im sure it was done. I dont think they do it any more though!! Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

they did have all white tires when the automobile was still a NEW thing. i've seen them in old pictures and on a couple restored "horseless carriages"... they kinda look like motor cycle tires but are something like 30inches in diameter.

[Hellfish]

did they have WBW (wide black walls) on all white tires? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[kustombuilder]

[ QUOTE ]
did they have WBW (wide black walls) on all white tires? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


UMMM. NO!!!


smartass....

[Bugman]

I have been kicking around this very idea for a while. I never got around to it though. I tried it today, and it does work well. Just be carefull you don't go through the white, cause there's more black under that http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

-Bugman Jeff

[daddylama]

ive heard of guys doing this before... even saw an oldtimer do it once, using a buffer and a kinda worn-out sanding disk...
so i just ran out to the barn and sanded down part of an old white letter tire. Used a really worn out 80 grit disk on my 7 1/2" grinder (no speed control, but it's kinda shot so it's not too fast anymore)... only did like 6" of the tire, but hot damn, works pretty well... the white is pretty smooth, too. 'Course i smell like a tire factory now...
but im gonna try it on a set of tires ive got...

[kustumizer]

Kool, sounds like everybodys had good luck with it so far!! Nate

[Elrusto]

This Is a great post!!
Bttt

[4t64rd]

In order to get the outside edge of the white wall nice and even, couldn't you mount the tire on the rim, put it back on the front of the car, jack it up and and get somebody to spin it while you go at it with the sander. this would get you the smooth edge. Then take the tire off the rim and finish it up. Like coloring inside the lines.

I'm going to try it this weekend, I've got a trailer with some used NWW on. I'll report back.

[Petejoe]

[ QUOTE ]
couldn't you mount the tire on the rim, put it back on the front of the car, jack it up and and get somebody to spin it while you go at it with the sander. this would get you the smooth edge

[/ QUOTE ] That's a hell of an idea! It would be like putting it on a lathe. Now all we would have to to is find a way to position the grinder and make it stationary. We'll get this perfected before you know it.

[kustumizer]

Hey guys, the only reason yuo would have to do this is if you are not making the whitewall the widest it can go. If you grinf the whitewall all the way out it will leave a nice clean edge because there is not all white underneath the black. If you were going to make a half inch white wall into a 1 inch whitewall i would do what you guys are talking about! What i just said is kind of hard to understand! Thanks Nate

[mytlo56]

Somebody needs to nominate Nate for best (or maybe most useful) tech. post. This is good stuff. Way to go Nate.

[kustumizer]

Kool, thanks i hope i win for best tech of week!! Thanks Nate

[Elrusto]

Ya got my vote!!

[kustumizer]

Kool, thanks. Nate

[SwitchBlade327]

mine too. This is one post that pretyt much everyone on here could use to save a nice chunk of cash. I get sets of skinny whites for $100. So this is SO much better than shelling out $500-$1000 for some wide ones.

[kustumizer]

Thanks!! Nate

[TP]

The outer edge is the existing edge of the whitewall.TP

[kustumizer]

The whitewall goes past the exsiting whitewall edge. Heres a pic. Nate

[Dirty Dug]

Post deleted by dirty dug

[Ryan]

Please ignore the above post. I don't wanna delete this whole thread cuz of one bad apple.

Again, please ignore the above post.

[kustumizer]

Its cool, he can go spend his money on buying whitewalls instead of saving some money!! Nate

[james]

What if you jacked up the tire and set a bench grinder under the tire to spin it? Seems like spinning it somehow would give you a more even finished tire.

[Mongo]

[ QUOTE ]
This week was a chance for you posers to actually learn something about building a hot rod but you chose to focus on one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen, grinding tires. You fucks should start your own website, call it, POSERS WITH FAKE WHITEWALLS.COM. Go paint your wheels red and get higher on the paint.

[/ QUOTE ]Do you even know what traditional hot rodding is about? It is about using what you have and making things that are ment for something else work for you.It's about fabricating your own parts when you can't get them or they are out of your price range.I would much rather be driving my car on a set of wide whites that I ground out then leting my car set while I try to come up with the money to buy over priced tires.Some of us are not made of money.

[kustumizer]

I hear you mongo. I dont know what his problem was. Its cool though! Thanks Nate

[____]

on the narrow whites ive seen latley ,the white portion is RASIED UP from the black,,,does this mean you GRIND down the white till its gound down past the black untill its all a solid white band? seems like ALOT of gringing to do and if so,it seems like it look like shit after it was all done with??? just wondering ,. i mean they may look good on the internet,but do they look decent in real life?

thanks

[SwitchBlade327]

some wide whites have a raised skinny section on them new, I never really noticed it until last week when a 50 plymouth was brought in for paint and i was checking out the wheels. I don't remember the brand but the guy said they were about $1000 a set.

[Threedeuce56]

It's cool that you are telling everyone about grinding whitewalls!I have some on my car that i did a few years back,i used some white letter tires,like bf goodrich radial ta's,and it worked great! at first i used a angle grinder,but then i found that a sanding disc on a drill works better,cause it's not too fast and it gives a smoother finish.after i sand them by hand with 80 grit then 120.for cleaning them i use an sos pad which is basically soap and fine steel wool.I've had mine for 3 years now and no problems .the outline white letter tires work even better cause there's less height to grind off.I think that this is one of the best kept secrets of our hobby !cool man this post rocks! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[ikillspies]

so, do you grind the tires dry, or would it be better to use oil or other lubrication, and also, is there white underneath the black on the bead part of the tire that is seated into the rim?

[Brootal]

Some people have already asked this, but I couldn't see an answer so I'll ask it again.

I've been running Michelin thin line whites for years now. The latest set I've got on my car have a "dip" either side of the whitewall. Wouldn't that mean that the white rubber is either raised, or is only applied where required?

I think the same tyre in the US is a BF Goodrich.

[Rude Dude]

I just wanted to say thanks great post, I have got some small whites laying around in garage a 4 inch makita grinder now I know what Ill be doing this weekend once again thanks for the tech tip

[kustomd]

This is pretty cool but as I found out the hard way be real careful I managed to slip and grind through my finger nail on my left hand all the way to the pink and yellow stuff inside it using a grinder. I wanted to see how it would work instead of a sander. Cutting it with a regular grinding wheel made my white wall nice and slick w/o any cracks but its hard to handle with the speed its moving. My hands are still a little to shakey to make a nice smooth line. But I'm going to keep practicing on junk tires but with a sander I found.