Hey, I have a question for you all.... I was thinking last night about the upcoming chrysler build that I am going to start this summer.... Here is a pic of what I have to start with. I know that alot of guys here have built frames from 2x3 steel tubing, and that pretty much all of the drag cars / sprint cars are built with tube chassis, so I am assuming that strength should not be an issue.... In my "creative" little mind I kind of whipped up this thought. I think that the extra effort put into this would make up for itself after the frame was completed... It does look like a ton of work fitting all the cross pieces together but I think the final look would be awesome... Just a thought ya know,,, winter is coming and just thought I would see if anyone else has attempted this before? I did a search on the hamb on tube chassis but didn't see anything yet,,, and am kind looking around the web today seeing what is out there.. Thanks, Steve
That would be called a trellis frame. I believe some of the old Maserati race cars used them. I know the most famous use these days is in motorcycles, Ducatis mostly. Do a google search for "car trellis frame" and you should get a few hits to start your search. Could be real cool, probably won;t really know until you're half way there...
Birdcage frame....like the Maserati of the same name? Lotus sevens use this style of frame. It's worth a shot.
Hey this looks pretty similiar to what I am thinking... A bit on the stocky side, but the concept is there.. Just not "Z'd".. I also was doing some diggin on the type of tubing that is used for Drag cars,,, I found that typically Chrome Molly tubing is only used for cars that are faster than 7.90 seconds... Any slower than that an typically a mild steel is used for the frame tubes.. I also read that the Chrome Molly tubing must be tig welded only, and the mild steel tubing can be done with a mig welder.. Kind of makes sense???
There is a difference. What you drew originaly was more of a trellis than a birdcage. A birdcage more or less encompasses the whole thing where more often than not a trellis is more of frame rails or perimeter. What you posted a pic of is kind of a composite of the two to me. I'm sure if Metalshapes sees this he has some cool pics stashed...
I'm a big Ducati fan and have thought of building a one off sports car with a trellis frame for a while. Of course it shoul dbe Buick powered. Maybe a 215 with a 6 speed and a hand hammered aluminum body...
i could be wrong but doesnt that thing posie just built have a frame similar to that...in the front half atleast? i forget what they call it...they used a tudor and made a truck of sorts...i remember a comment of "would make a better bridge then a street rod" thats why im thinking it might be that type of frame? just a thought... good luck zach
I don't know the vehicle you speak of, but usually anything that has a truss like rail or perimeter falls into the categorie. I know this a generalization but it works more often than not. Here's a truss for good measure.
zach your thinking about this thing.... my question is would it be just as strong out of sqquare tubing... and along the same lines.. has anyone seen speedway's "new" 32 frame with the internal bridging? I dont see how the internal bridging improves the chassis.. can anyone explain
[ QUOTE ] There is a difference. What you drew originaly was more of a trellis than a birdcage. A birdcage more or less encompasses the whole thing where more often than not a trellis is more of frame rails or perimeter. What you posted a pic of is kind of a composite of the two to me. I'm sure if Metalshapes sees this he has some cool pics stashed... [/ QUOTE ] I guess that was about the closest thing I could find online to show what I was thinking of.. My original idea and drawing is what I am going to build.. It will basically be the same lines of a normal 2x3 rectangular frame, only made with the round tubing.. I don't think there will be a need for a roll cage or anything I suppose that square tubing would be just as strong, but I kind of like the idea and look of making it out of the round tube instead. I found out a guy I used to work with had started his own business, mostly off road jeep stuff, but he does build roll cages for jeeps and has a bender and access to the correct diamater tubing.... Should be able to pick his brain a bit too... I've seen those guys bounce down a rock hill ontop of the roll cages that he has built, so must be strong enough
The chassis I'm designing in Autocad for my modified T-bucket will be similar to the one in "57wagon's" photo except in round DOM tubing. I'll be able to sit low "in" the car as opposed to sitting "on" it as is usually necessary when using a stock-type ladder/platform frame. I hope to post a drawing of it soon.
A structure made of straight members conected at joints is called a truss. When these members are joined together in a 3d configuration, we get a space truss. The Maserati Typo 60 racecars had a spaceframe design that, with all it's straight members, resembled a birdcage, hence the nickname given to the car. Treillis is French for truss. A spaceframe is supposed to have all it's members loaded in Tension or compression, no bending forces (although some frames will have some anyways). The advantage of such a chassis is it's strenght to weight ratio. The chassis in 57wagon's picture is from a lotus 7 (or clone) and must weight around 40 Lbs, allowing a Lotus with a tiny engine to run loops around everything else on the road. The sad part is that it's harder than it looks to design an efficient spaceframe for a hot rod, but it's worth trying. By the way, does anybody have blueprints for a seven chassis (not Locost), i'd love to see one.
Other than round vs:square tubing...how much difference is there? I thought the Locost was a pretty close copy of a Caterham... I built one last winter at the shop in NY. Looks like I'm going back to finish it. My friend is lacking in inspiration/ambition.
A space (tube) frame, I believe, is what Buttera used under alot of his hotrods. I pretty sure J.B. based his idea on old sports car / racecar frames. Funny car's and dragster's are the same thing. Basically, two light weight perimeter frames joined with vertical and diagonal uprights.
[ QUOTE ] I thought the Locost was a pretty close copy of a Caterham... [/ QUOTE ] Compare a Locost side picture with one from a Caterham. I think the Locost is longer, higher, wider. I also think it's uglier, but it's only my opinion. The driver compartment sides are very different (better looking on a Cat). [ QUOTE ] Basically, two light weight perimeter frames joined with vertical and diagonal uprights. [/ QUOTE ] And basically, a car is four wheels and an engine. What I mean is there's more to it than that. On a poorly designed spaceframe, you can often remove members that serve no purpose. If you were to add a few well placed members, it could also stiffen the chassis A LOT! Such is the case with the Locost chassis. It's good, but could be better.
Richard Pauza has done some '34 style frames in the same fashion. you can find some photos on metalshapers. i would recommend the square tubing route, its just much easier to fit and that's a lot of joints, or i mean you'll go through a lot of joints making that or whatever. 4130 won't be any stiffer - it will be tougher in terms of fracture resistance or tearing during failure. use 1018 - 1026 mild and weld any way you want. looks cool, go for it. brandon
[ QUOTE ] Other than round vs:square tubing...how much difference is there? [/ QUOTE ] For the same wall thickness and length, the square is stronger than the round tubing, but heavier.
anybody have any better pictures of this one? I did but I can't seem to find them, it's a local car here in the Northwest I think the frame came from an old sprint car?
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