1957 chevrolet "BLACK WIDOW"

[50mercfan]

looking for info on the 57 black widow 150 2 door sedan. i had a magazine article years ago that was great, but can't find it now. i can't come up with anything on the web except for some clones for sale. about a month ago i bought a nice rust free two door sedan 210. i'm thinking black widow hot rod clone.also, is the trim on the 57 150 the same as the trim on a 55 or 56 150? can't seem to get that answered either. anyone have pics of black widows and black widow clones?

[squirrel]

here are a couple pics from a book

[Chopped50Ford]

what makes this care special? a movie?

[draggin ass]

6 lug wheels ?? WTF truck axles?

[Boones]

light weight, heavy duty parts, go fast for its time

[Brad54]

Side trim is unique to the '57 150. And for some reason, the long quarter spears are impossible to find.

Classic Chevy International sells a repro of the original "Build yerself a Nascar racer!" manual printed by Chevrolet. Fun to read, and lists the parts that were unique to the Widows.

I've got a '57 150 2dr station wagon that was a factory Black and White. Was going to do a Widow themed car, but with a 2x4 intake instead...it's now on the way to being a 409-powered gasser, with fiberglass front fenders and doors.

Brad

I just read two additional posts while I was typing this:
What makes them special? They were Chevy "skunk works" NASCARs built by Southern Engineering and Design Company in Atlanta. They were Fuel injected 283s. Among other things, they had a lot of heavy duty parts including radiator (with steel, spiral wound rod fan guard to keep the blades out of the radiator core in case of accident), truck front spindles, truck rear axle, vented hood (home heater registers cut into the hood to allow trapped air to escape), roll bar and race harness, big extra bolster on the seat to keep the driver in place when he went around corners, and the seat back on the passenger side was removed.
In the trunk, the spare tire well was deleted from the factory, to fit a larger capacity gas tank in place of the stocker. I've seen pix of two extra gas tank straps added, going sideways instead of front-to-back.
The fuel tank would have been illegal if caught, so the story is that GM went to the place that stamped out the rubber trunk floor mats and took a bunch before they had the cut-out for the spare tire well die-cut in them. This hid the absence of the tire well, which would have tipped off tech inspectors. (It's have been obvious with the hole for the well in the rubber mat)
The frame was the lighter 1-pc box tubing frame (instead of two pieces of C-channel welded together), and one-piece California bumpers. (The one-piece frames are not unique to California; I've seen several cars made in Atlanta with the one-piece frame).
The exhaust was routed through a gusseted hole in the frame (both sides) and exited in front of the rear tires. The rocker was clearance for this.
Lower control arms were re-inforced with a piece of steel plate to complete box the control arm, and the spindles were reinforced as well, too (I think...I could look that up).
An extra shock was mounted to the front control arms, with a tab welded to the side of the lower arm, and the frame. In back, a tubular cross member was added above the housing, and dual shocks were on each side. (Unless rules dictated only one shock).
They also had an extension built on top of the single reservoir master cylinder, to increase the amount of fluid in the system, though it was still only a single reservoir.

Fenton made headers for them, but those are scarce because they don't clear the later side motor mounts, so they were '55-'57 Chevy only, and weren't long in production.

-Brad

[squirrel]

I found a magazine article on it, look here (http://www.selectric.org/hrm/1987/) for the 4 pages. they're incognito, though.

[av8]

The trim level depends on what type of '57 "Back Widow" you want to recreate.

I went into considerable detail about my original Black Widow on the HAMB about a week ago. Do a search and you will probably have most of your quesitions answered, although there's some bad info there -- typical for something as significant as the '57 Chevy "Black Widow."


We didn't call them "Black Widows" at the time, Jay. The common term by which they were identified, at least in SoCal where several dozen of them dominated A/Stock drag racing in the first part of the year, was "Duntov Chevys." Once the NHRA created the new Super Stock class to accommodate them and a few other factory-built hot rods from other manufacturers as well, the common term was then "Super-stock Chevy."

"Black Widow" was first applied to the 8 or 10 (the number is in question) SEDCO-prepped '57 150s Chevy’s Vince Piggens ordered for NASCAR competition, and the term didn't filter down to SoCal drag racing until well into the model year. Even then, it wasn't as definitive for drag racers as was the term "SS Chevy."

The success of those early SEDCO-built Black Widows earned Chevy a ton of orders for a "mass-produced" version from both NASCAR and drag racers, which the factory met as quickly as possible. I've heard that there were perhaps as many as 1100 built, but it's not certain how many of those were the true kick-ass cars. I ordered mine in late Winter 1957 but didn't receive it until early Summer -- about 10 weeks after order. Chevy was more concerned with filling orders from NASCAR racers than they were those from young no-name drag racers, and while I can't fault them for that now, it sure pissed me off at the time!

All the '57 BW/SS/Duntov Chevys (after the SEDCO cars) were built in Flint, and included all the modifications incorporated in the SEDCO cars, plus some further refinements, plus tailoring to application. They were all two-door post bodies, although they were not all 150s. I ordered mine as a 210, initially requesting a two-door hardtop. That was rejected which cost me at least a week, but probably more when it was clear to Chevy that I wasn't a serious roundy-round racer. I relented on the body configuration but was firm on trim level, which was clearly no problem for Chevy because most of the SS cars that showed up in SoCal for drag racing were trimmed as 210s. Also, more than a few of those "Black Widows" were delivered in red, with several in the handsome Sierra Gold that Chevy had intro'd in 1956.

For my 50-percent premium for the "performance group" over the base price of a 1957 Chevrolet 210 two-door sedan I received that wonderful solid-lifter, select-fit and assembled Duntov 283 SBC with a pair of WCFB carburetors, trick 12:1 heads, 2-1/2-inch rams-horn exhaust manifolds built expressly for the sedan, three-speed close-ratio transmission, HD LSD differential, HD radiator, HD suspension, special frame reinforcement, six-lug HD hubs and brakes, quicker steering ratio . . .

All very cool at the time, particularly for a dork.



If you need additional clarification and expansion on specific points, PM me and I'll try to help.

Mike

[50mercfan]

thanks fella's for the good info . A-V8, do you have any pics of yours? heres a shitty pic of the one i just bought. it's driver. all original panels. never rusted. i'm going to make the outside of the car look like a black widow 150. the inside i'm going to use the black and silver bel-air interior. and probably going to put american racing "hopsters" on it. they kinda remind me of halibrands.

[Brad54]

That's a cool story Mike. I was born in the wrong decade!

I think when most people talk about the '57 Chevy "Black Widows," they're thinking of the special black and white 150 fuel injected sedans. That might be where some confusion comes in. Much like the one-piece "California" frames. Confusion has come in with the one-piece California bumpers, and now everyone thinks that if it's one piece (frame, bumper, it doesn't matter), then it was the "California" only deal.

I have heard of the special-order cars being called "Duntov Chevys" (or Duntov Corvettes for those special-order cars).

I was lucky enough to interview Crane Cams' Ralph Johnson a couple years ago. He was a college student Co-op'ing with Chevrolet when they were developing the Small Block Chevy. AWESOME stories! Talk about a guy who has literally been there and done that! He went to work at SEDCO as the fuel injection specialist and was assigned with making them work.
I've also been able to talk a bunch with Lamar Walden about 150 Black Widows. He restored the one that's in the NASCAR museum, and got a lot of NOS parts for it from Smokey Yunick. Smokey helped clean out the SEDCO operation when they closed the doors. Lamar got the gas tank, headers, special rubber trunk mat and a bunch of other stuff I'd give favored body parts for.

Yup...several decades too late.

Brad

[50mercfan]

anyone else have pics?

[Carbs & Chrome]

here are a couple pics from a book

Never been a real fan of the '57, but I have always liked these.

[Spaulding]

Saw this setting about a block from where I work and had to get a pic. Don't know anything about this car except it was in Wichita.

[Spaulding]

Oops! Let's try again.

[brandon]

there was one in cincinnati .....not sure if the guy still has it.....name is george swartz....also has one of those el marocco 57 as well.......the black widow cars are neat pieces.....i read stories about people pulling them out of sheds out in the woods....crazy stuff......anyone have any pics of the black widow drag car.....think it was called the jester or joker ...?? brandon

[Brad54]

there was one in cincinnati .....not sure if the guy still has it.....name is george swartz....also has one of those el marocco 57 as well.......the black widow cars are neat pieces.....i read stories about people pulling them out of sheds out in the woods....crazy stuff......anyone have any pics of the black widow drag car.....think it was called the jester or joker ...?? brandon

I remember that feature--it was called The Rochester Jester. Had an evel looking laughing skull with a jester hat on it. I kept the article, but have no idea where it is.

Brad

[John Copeland]

Chevrolet hired a couple of motor coach companies to produce a limited number of airport limos in 1957, the front and rear suspensions and six lug configurations that was utilized on the limos, was used on the Black Widows. The parts were not from Chevy trucks. The "widow" utilized the parts from the limo which could be easily purchased over the counter at any Chevy dealership in that era. The large fuel tank was from a 57 Chevrolet Taxi and the ceramic brake shoes were commom the the Black Widow. You can clone a 150 sedan pretty easily, but some of the one-off pieces would be impossible to find.

One of my friends here in Columbus, Ohio, passed away recently. He had a huge collection of cars and he was very fond of the 57s. He had two 150, dual quad cars and the only green (clone) 150 fuelie car that was like the only one ever produced. That car came out of the Corvette Museum in Bowling Green. His wife is selling the collection, if anyone is interested, shoot me a PM and I'll give you a phone number.


John

[tanker1]

Check this site for a pic. I never saw a real one, only clones.

http://www.57heaven.com/BlackWidow.html

Chevrolet's Black Widow: The First Factory Hot Rod?
Back in the mid-50s, as stock car racing started to leap in popularity, Chevrolet offered a Spartan "utility" sedan, built specifically for Nascar competition.
The "Black Widow," as it came to be known, was merely a two-door version of the same plain-Jane sedan Chevy sold to police fleets and to the US Army, only with a surprise: a fuel-injected 283ci V8 straight out of the Corvette. (Ironically, Nascar eventually disqualified it because it didn't have carburetors). Very few of these sedans were made, and all were painted black and white. Because they're nearly impossible to find today, a mint-condition specimen would fetch beaucoup buckeroos.

Color: Black & White - only color available
Model #: 1512
Factory Base Price: N.A.
Shipping Weight: 3,168 lbs. plus modifications
Production Total: "Not Available" - very few
Engine: 283 ci V8 horsepower, fuel-injected
Transmission: Three-speed standard, column mount
Interior: Stock utility sedan with roll bar
Convertible Top: Power - white
History: These cars were built strictly for racing. On February 20, 1957, Nascar ruled that since late model convertibles and short track cars were limited to engines with one four-barrel carburetor, they could not be raced in Nascar races after that date.

Jim

[50mercfan]

there was one in cincinnati .....not sure if the guy still has it.....name is george swartz....also has one of those el marocco 57 as well.......the black widow cars are neat pieces.....i read stories about people pulling them out of sheds out in the woods....crazy stuff......anyone have any pics of the black widow drag car.....think it was called the jester or joker ...?? brandon


thats the article i had years ago also. spaulding, thats what i want to do to mine. i'm not trying for 100 point clone. i just want the overall look.

the 57 chevy goes back a long way for me. in grade school in the 70's my best buddys dad built three two door hardtops. i helped him every step of the way. the best a ten year old can, anyway.

being a poorboy i was never able to obtain one until now. it's two door sedan, but it'll work.

the problem is when you've seen one 57 chevy, you've pretty much seen them all. so i think the best way to remedy that is the "black widow". it's different but still looks great.

[Brad54]

Chevrolet hired a couple of motor coach companies to produce a limited number of airport limos in 1957, the front and rear suspensions and six lug configurations that was utilized on the limos, was used on the Black Widows. The parts were not from Chevy trucks. The "widow" utilized the parts from the limo which could be easily purchased over the counter at any Chevy dealership in that era. The large fuel tank was from a 57 Chevrolet Taxi and the ceramic brake shoes were commom the the Black Widow. You can clone a 150 sedan pretty easily, but some of the one-off pieces would be impossible to find.
John


CCI sells a reprint of the "1957 Chevrolet Stock Car Competition Guide." It goes over what SEDCO did to these cars, and uses photos of the actual cars in the manual, showing what they did. Solid motor mounts, plates welded to that open area on the frame in front of the control arms (where the front bumper mounts), special heavy radiator hose and clamps, and the list goes on.

If you dig the Black Widows or any kind of vintage racing, it's a good read.

"Twenty-gallon tank has increased fuel capacity. Unit is complete with necessary filler neck, hoses, clamps and straps. Mounts same as standard tank..." Group 3.001, PN 3744079
In the photo, it shows two additional mounting straps going side-to-side.

Rear Axle. The rear end is is the drop-out carrier style, and has a removable back cover. It's also been braced, with a piece of tubing or solid rod going under the housing, side-to-side.

Axle Unit, Rear
Group 5.386, Part No. 3744020
"Unit is interghangeable with standard rear axle. Existing attaching parts can be used. Shop Manual overhaul procedure for the 1/2-Ton Truck axle is applicable."

"Proper ring and pinion gear adjustment is very important. Shop Manual procedure for 1/2-Ton Truck axle should be followed carefully."

If anyone has a Chevy part numbers book from the era, I'd love to know what the applications are for the following parts from the Guide. I'm intrigued by the front suspension/taxi cab angle.

Group 5.809, Hub and Drum Assy, Front Wheel. PN 3725816
Group 6.020, Knuckle, Steering, with nut. PN 3725025
Group 6.103, Arm, Steering Knuckle, LH PN 3729295
RH 3729296
Group 6.307, Hub, Front Wheel, PN 3744428

They also give part numbers for tie rods, tie rod sleeves, clamp, inner and outter wheel bearings, Pitman arm, steering relay rod, steering idler and "lever assy" for the steering idler.

The manual says "Stronger steering knuckles, wheel hubs, brake drums and associated parts offer greater durability and safety in competition. Most of these parts are shot-peened for extra strength. Steering Knuckle Unit inclused special hub, brake drum, wheel bearings and other necessary related parts. Procedures in Shop Manual are applicable as these stronger parts are similar to standard. Enlargement of holes for new ball studs is necessary--instructions are included. Within standard limits, wheel bearing adjustment must be loose rather than tight. Other special front suspension modifications are described on page 13."

Brad

[k9racer]

Hugh Babb [atlanta] was a consultant on the project. Paul McDuffie worked at the skunk works.. Bradley Dennis who still lives in Dunwoody Ga was the shop foreman.. He now inspects houses..In Smokey Yunicks book Smokey said that Brad Dennis was the only person he ever learned any thing from.. Mr Dennis was//is a wizz on carburators.. I knew of 2 of the cars One was bought by a bootlegger in south ga. I dont rember his name and the other was bought by Birmingham Alabama businessman Cosby Hodges..I think it was wrecked at the beach.But I know it was wrecked and not repaired. About the same time Rex White [who still lives in Atlanta] and Tom Pistone also built cars two identical cars that were backed by general motors.. This is all I can recall as it was a long time ago..OH yes you might catch them at the Moonshine Festival in Dawsonville. If so they we will be at the Georgia Auto racing hall of fame booth.. I hope this helps....Bobby..

[50mercfan]

brad54, k9racer, and everyone else thanks for the in depth info. it's great.

[curbspeed]

50 Mercfan, Please rethink your wheel choice if your gonna do this. The rim you mentioned made me wince bigtime and I have only had three beers tonight. Go with the steelies like in the pics. You will be a hero. My 2 cents. I love the overall concept on this. Make a plan and follow through. These cars just plain get me going.

[50mercfan]

50 Mercfan, Please rethink your wheel choice if your gonna do this. The rim you mentioned made me wince bigtime and I have only had three beers tonight. Go with the steelies like in the pics. You will be a hero. My 2 cents. I love the overall concept on this. Make a plan and follow through. These cars just plain get me going.


curbspeed, i was already thinking in that direction. the more i stare at those white wheels the cooler they get. i was just trying to think of a wheel that had an old "feel" to it without going with the torq thrust. i've searched for a set of halibrands ,but, damn i'd have to sell the house to get them. i can't find the 150 trim anywhere.

[ThunderRocket]

Here's FLAT-TOP Bob and I drooling over a set of Fenton Black Widow exhaust manifolds.

[50mercfan]

holly shit, those are bad ass. so it had 4 exhaust pipes comming off the engine?

[noboD]

holly shit, those are bad ass.
Not just the headers, the whole project is bad assed.

[painkiller]

http://www.pioneerclassicautos.com/B_&_W%20150.htm

[50mercfan]

http://www.pioneerclassicautos.com/B_&_W%20150.htm


painkiller, thanks for the link.

[curbspeed]

Even if you just used a white painted 5 lug wheel it would give you the same cool feel and be a helluva lot cheaper than some of the others you mentioned. Good Luck with the project and go for it!

[mr57]

Here's a couple shots of what one should look like....

[50mercfan]

Even if you just used a white painted 5 lug wheel it would give you the same cool feel and be a helluva lot cheaper than some of the others you mentioned. Good Luck with the project and go for it!


i definatly won't use the six lug wheels. like i said i'm not going for an exact clone like the #57. i just want the black and white overall look.

[50mercfan]

Here's a couple shots of what one should look like....

mr.57 thanks for the pics

[roscoe_butcher]

One thing I recall w/ Black Widows is that they came w/ an X-member frame as well. This was to cut down on torsional twist in the frame. The shit from a convertible car. I have been fascinated w/ Black Widows since i was 8 yrs old, had a guy in our car club that was a wealth of info on 'em!

[squirrel]

i definatly won't use the six lug wheels.

I would if I were you, but then I have a bunch of old 6 lug wheels from 50s trucks laying around....

[roscoe_butcher]

From what I know of the black widow cars they also had an X-member frame. the same as converts had.

[50mercfan]

I would if I were you, but then I have a bunch of old 6 lug wheels from 50s trucks laying around....


too much detail. i'm not trying to fool anyone. the way i've always felt about it is it's ok to put a cowl hood and ss emblems on a chevelle, but, when you change the dash and put disc brakes and sway bars on it you crossed the line. just my opinion of coarse.

[squirrel]

hey, if the 6 lug truck rearend and matching wheels are laying in the yard, then they should go on a car that they'd look right on, eh? there really aren't many places to use these parts, a Black Widow look 57 is one of the few.

[50mercfan]

hey, if the 6 lug truck rearend and matching wheels are laying in the yard, then they should go on a car that they'd look right on, eh? there really aren't many places to use these parts, a Black Widow look 57 is one of the few.


true.

[Brad54]

hey, if the 6 lug truck rearend and matching wheels are laying in the yard, then they should go on a car that they'd look right on, eh? there really aren't many places to use these parts, a Black Widow look 57 is one of the few.

No Posi in those truck rear ends though, is there?

Brad

[squirrel]

nope, the posi that was introduced in 59 trucks was a dana 40 rearend, not the "chevrolet" pumpkin truck rearend.

[50mercfan]

i understand that all the 6 cyl three speed cars and trucks had low gears and posi to make up for the lack of power. my 57 has 4.11's and posi.

[squirrel]

they didn't have posi as standard....generally cars with PG got mild gearing, 3 speed a bit more, and overdrive the steepest

[av8]

That's a cool story Mike. I was born in the wrong decade!

I think when most people talk about the '57 Chevy "Black Widows," they're thinking of the special black and white 150 fuel injected sedans. That might be where some confusion comes in. Much like the one-piece "California" frames. Confusion has come in with the one-piece California bumpers, and now everyone thinks that if it's one piece (frame, bumper, it doesn't matter), then it was the "California" only deal.

I have heard of the special-order cars being called "Duntov Chevys" (or Duntov Corvettes for those special-order cars).

I was lucky enough to interview Crane Cams' Ralph Johnson a couple years ago. He was a college student Co-op'ing with Chevrolet when they were developing the Small Block Chevy. AWESOME stories! Talk about a guy who has literally been there and done that! He went to work at SEDCO as the fuel injection specialist and was assigned with making them work.
I've also been able to talk a bunch with Lamar Walden about 150 Black Widows. He restored the one that's in the NASCAR museum, and got a lot of NOS parts for it from Smokey Yunick. Smokey helped clean out the SEDCO operation when they closed the doors. Lamar got the gas tank, headers, special rubber trunk mat and a bunch of other stuff I'd give favored body parts for.

Yup...several decades too late.

Brad

Brad -- I envy you getting to meet and talk to Ralph Johnson.

The majority of the Duntov Chevys involved in SS class racing in SoCal were carburetted "two-by-fours." The handful of FI cars were typically trounced in early elimination rounds and directed toward the pit gate. The commonly accepted explanation at the time was that the lower-HP carburetted motors simply worked better on a drag strip than did the FI motors, and that may very well have been true. In the early '80s I read an interview with a retired Chevy special-projects engineer about the "good times" in the mid and late '50s in which he said that the 270-hp motors typically produced 295-305 hp compared to the just-barely 283 hp that the FI motors were said to produce.

Mike

[av8]

Chevrolet hired a couple of motor coach companies to produce a limited number of airport limos in 1957, the front and rear suspensions and six lug configurations that was utilized on the limos, was used on the Black Widows. The parts were not from Chevy trucks. The "widow" utilized the parts from the limo which could be easily purchased over the counter at any Chevy dealership in that era. The large fuel tank was from a 57 Chevrolet Taxi and the ceramic brake shoes were commom the the Black Widow. You can clone a 150 sedan pretty easily, but some of the one-off pieces would be impossible to find.

John

No disrespect intended, but I find this very hard to believe. Chevrolet and GM had enough suitable bits in their regular inventory to not have to stray off the path. In the 44k miles I logged on my SS ("Black Widow") I paid for three "brake jobs" which were essentially new linings and trued drums. Wide-shoe (3/4-ton) Chevy/GMC truck pieces were used each time.

Mike

[Retro61]

Hey 59mercfan, my brother has a '57 283, that was in his '48 sedan before he installed the 350! It may be for sale-????:D

[50mercfan]

Hey 59mercfan, my brother has a '57 283, that was in his '48 sedan before he installed the 350! It may be for sale-????:D


hey retro67, it's 50mercfan and don't you forget it, mister! i already have 1 to many 283's in my life. but thanks.

[sledbuilder]

Don't know if this will help, but I was interested a few years back myself and ran across this website. http://community-2.webtv.net/stevelawson/1957NASCARCHAMPION/
I think you probably have most of this info by now but it never hurts to have more.
Jason

[propwash]

I want to thank all you gurus that contributed to this thread - I only thought I knew about those Black Widow cars - that's what's so great about the HAMB - a plethora of hands-on folks ready to impart their knowledge to we minions in the unwashed masses. Excellent information, and I'm much smarter than I was before I logged on.

tnx
dj

[53sled]

too much detail. i'm not trying to fool anyone. the way i've always felt about it is it's ok to put a cowl hood and ss emblems on a chevelle, but, when you change the dash and put disc brakes and sway bars on it you crossed the line. just my opinion of coarse.

whats wrong with sway bars and disc brakes?

[Gotgas]

I was told (true???) that there were also a handful of station wagons produced with the same trim level and special / unique SS parts. They were to be used as tow vehicles when these cars arrived at the track. If there were any objections from the tech officials as to the validity of certain modifications, the team could point to the wagon and say, "hell even the tow rig has the same part."

Again, not sure of the authenticity but it does sound like something they would do back then.

I saw a set of '57 150 trim at the last Pate swap meet, complete and bundled together, needing polish but otherwise straight. Asking price was $650...

[Carbs & Chrome]

I was told (true???) that there were also a handful of station wagons produced with the same trim level and special / unique SS parts. They were to be used as tow vehicles when these cars arrived at the track. If there were any objections from the tech officials as to the validity of certain modifications, the team could point to the wagon and say, "hell even the tow rig has the same part."

Again, not sure of the authenticity but it does sound like something they would do back then.

I saw a set of '57 150 trim at the last Pate swap meet, complete and bundled together, needing polish but otherwise straight. Asking price was $650...

I think a wagon would be killer!

[Ghostrdr]

First why couldn't a posi carrier be put in the truck rear end?

And second

I am pretty sure Hemmings Muscle Machines did an article on a fuel injected 57' 150 chevy. It was all black but I think a side bar had some info on that black widow. I can't find it on the net but I can scan it if I find it.

[Gator Mc Klusky]

Cool Thread! These Widows rule!!!

[Brad54]

I think a wagon would be killer!

I've got a '57 150 2-dr wagon that was factory black and white. The dude who bought it new turned it into a street racer. From everything I've read, the Handyman wagons that got a V8 came with a 265 that was painted an ugly green. The guy put in a 283 and painted it green, then dropped a 2x4 intake on it--so it looked like a 265 with dual quads. At some point in the early '60s, it got a 3spd OD trans.
When I bought it, the original induction was gone, but the guy threw in a 2x4 intake and carbs (with the wrong numbers, but factory duals according to no choke mechanism...I've never run the numbers). The heads were also junkers put on the engine to sell. Came with a spare 1pc frame (powdercoated black) and P-case, and extra set of control arms also powder coated. Body is ROUGH, but was a pretty complete car. Had home-made floors in it (well done, but no ribs or anything--just flat metal), and a lot of bondo. I bought it in '95 for $3500.
I was going to do the black widow thing with it, but got side tracked into a gasser. It's still B&W, but now it has fiberglass fenders and doors, sits high in the front, has a Leaf Link rear suspension, Mopar 8 3/4 rear and Radir white wall pie-crusts on black steel wheels. Interior has a 12-point cage. I'm re-doing a set of Dodge A-100 van seats on Mopar Super Stock aluminum seat risers (having them made now). Trans is a slick-shift Hemi 4spd.
I still have the '57 283 and the intake, picked up a set of polished 7-fin valve covers and a set of natural finish 9-fin valve covers, a set of date-code correct '57 Fuelie heads and a Muncie 4spd...But they're now shelf ornaments, because I'm putting a Lamar Walden built 482-inch 409 in it. Low-rise tunnel ram, Comp solid roller, fender well headers and finned Edelbrock valve covers.

I agree with what was posted earlier about '57s being kind of boring and overdone by now...but I love the Black & Whites, wagons and gassers. And 409s. Goal is to have it done by Power Tour.

When it's done, the white part of the quarter panels will have the name Black Widow Wagon painted on it. "Black" will be in cursive writing, smaller, and at about a 45-degree angle infront of "Widow". Widow Wagon will be in a block sign painter's font with a drop shadow. Widow Wagon will be the name of the car, "Black" a tip of the hat to the SEDCO Sedans.

-Brad

[302GMC]

At what point did the Fenton V8 headers become a part of the "Black Widow" legend ? Were some of the cars (such as AV8's) equipped with 2 1/2" single outlet manifolds, and others with headers ? It would seem Hedmans would have made more power.

[Carbs & Chrome]

I've got a '57 150 2-dr wagon that was factory black and white. The dude who bought it new turned it into a street racer. From everything I've read, the Handyman wagons that got a V8 came with a 265 that was painted an ugly green. The guy put in a 283 and painted it green, then dropped a 2x4 intake on it--so it looked like a 265 with dual quads. At some point in the early '60s, it got a 3spd OD trans.
When I bought it, the original induction was gone, but the guy threw in a 2x4 intake and carbs (with the wrong numbers, but factory duals according to no choke mechanism...I've never run the numbers). The heads were also junkers put on the engine to sell. Came with a spare 1pc frame (powdercoated black) and P-case, and extra set of control arms also powder coated. Body is ROUGH, but was a pretty complete car. Had home-made floors in it (well done, but no ribs or anything--just flat metal), and a lot of bondo. I bought it in '95 for $3500.
I was going to do the black widow thing with it, but got side tracked into a gasser. It's still B&W, but now it has fiberglass fenders and doors, sits high in the front, has a Leaf Link rear suspension, Mopar 8 3/4 rear and Radir white wall pie-crusts on black steel wheels. Interior has a 12-point cage. I'm re-doing a set of Dodge A-100 van seats on Mopar Super Stock aluminum seat risers (having them made now). Trans is a slick-shift Hemi 4spd.
I still have the '57 283 and the intake, picked up a set of polished 7-fin valve covers and a set of natural finish 9-fin valve covers, a set of date-code correct '57 Fuelie heads and a Muncie 4spd...But they're now shelf ornaments, because I'm putting a Lamar Walden built 482-inch 409 in it. Low-rise tunnel ram, Comp solid roller, fender well headers and finned Edelbrock valve covers.

I agree with what was posted earlier about '57s being kind of boring and overdone by now...but I love the Black & Whites, wagons and gassers. And 409s. Goal is to have it done by Power Tour.

When it's done, the white part of the quarter panels will have the name Black Widow Wagon painted on it. "Black" will be in cursive writing, smaller, and at about a 45-degree angle infront of "Widow". Widow Wagon will be in a block sign painter's font with a drop shadow. Widow Wagon will be the name of the car, "Black" a tip of the hat to the SEDCO Sedans.

-Brad

Nice... got any pics?

[50mercfan]

I was told (true???) that there were also a handful of station wagons produced with the same trim level and special / unique SS parts. They were to be used as tow vehicles when these cars arrived at the track. If there were any objections from the tech officials as to the validity of certain modifications, the team could point to the wagon and say, "hell even the tow rig has the same part."

Again, not sure of the authenticity but it does sound like something they would do back then.

I saw a set of '57 150 trim at the last Pate swap meet, complete and bundled together, needing polish but otherwise straight. Asking price was $650...

that sounds like a smokey yunick trick. he did somthing similar with a 66 chevelle. he cut it down to 7/8 scale and then built a stock looking 7/8 scale and put in the parking lot. when the nascar template didn't fit his race car he sent the officials to the parking lot to check a "stocker". they didn't fit it either so they let him race.

$650 ? damn, i really didn't think anyone would want it.

[Ghostrdr]

So what do you guys think of using the Ramjet 350 crate motor done up to resemble the OG fuelie?

http://www.fastlanecars.com/vehicle_detail.asp?inventory_id=892

[Brad54]

So what do you guys think of using the Ramjet 350 crate motor done up to resemble the OG fuelie?

http://www.fastlanecars.com/vehicle_detail.asp?inventory_id=892

I love it. If I had the bones, I'd do it in a minute. I'd try to hide the new injectors if I could, or at least make them a little less conspicuous, but I think it's fantastic.

Brad

By the way, what does OG stand for? I've always heard and seen OE or OEM (Original Equipment and Original Equipment Manufacturer)

[Ghostrdr]

OG is a stupid urban version of OE it stood for original gangster, but has transmgrified into meaning anything original. Sorry, I have stupid words for things sometimes.

[mr57]

This one was a "blue widow" originally, a 283 powerpack, 3speed o/d 4.11 posi car. Now to find the rest of the pieces......

[tommyhawk13]

Paul McDuffie worked at the skunk works..

Paul McDuffie is my girlfriend's grandfather. I'd like to know if you hae any info on him. He sounded like an amazing man who I would of loved to have shared a beer or two in a garage.

[Nads]

Paul McDuffie is my girlfriend's grandfather. I'd like to know if you hae any info on him. He sounded like an amazing man who I would of loved to have shared a beer or two in a garage.
Is this guy related to the Central Florida hot rodder McDuffie? Can't be too many of them.

About fuel injection, it had to have been an uncharted oceon in 1957 in the USA. The Europeans had a jump on America in that regard, however carburetors were a refined and tested entity. It's no surprise that the carburetted cars outran the FIs. It makes me imagine what would have happened had GM thoroughly worked out the idiosyncracies of the Corvair, Pontiac OHC sixes and other premature adventures, perhaps they wouldn't be where they are now.

This was a most fascinating read and it makes me rue the day I passed up that rust free '57 Chevy 150 2 door sedan for $4,000 a few years ago.

[tommyhawk13]

Is this guy related to the Central Florida hot rodder McDuffie? Can't be too many of them.

About fuel injection, it had to have been an uncharted oceon in 1957 in the USA. The Europeans had a jump on America in that regard, however carburetors were a refined and tested entity. It's no surprise that the carburetted cars outran the FIs. It makes me imagine what would have happened had GM thoroughly worked out the idiosyncracies of the Corvair, Pontiac OHC sixes and other premature adventures, perhaps they wouldn't be where they are now.

This was a most fascinating read and it makes me rue the day I passed up that rust free '57 Chevy 150 2 door sedan for $4,000 a few years ago.
Not that we are aware of. Most of her mother's family is still in Georgia.