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Technical Zip ties

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Gus68, Mar 23, 2014.

  1. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    old man was a industrial sparky For FOMOCo , and I remember the zip ties in the late 60's and still have a unopened packs he borrowed from work ( they where white now yellow from age and brittle ) , they were Panduit , but he taught me how to friction tape and what he called sew ( proper name was lacing ) with waxed treated string and copper wire , and I remember the T&B foil wraps too . when I went thru to see what was left of my original harness the P.O. cut out it was in the woven sock style stuff above the doors to the trunk .
     
  2. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Pop tops...modern tech! Wrong! Church keys only on the HAMB!!
    Electrical tape...getting modern. Look into "Friction tape"...
    Fuses...well, Ford started using them in '32, so once you start putting a flathead into your T, OK.
    The aluminum tie wraps go back a ways...I have seen them in Ford supplied kits from '40's for things like accessory turn signal kit. This place has them in aluminum and brass...http://www.restorationstuff.com/catalog.html P12 of online catalog
     
  3. fourtogo
    Joined: Jan 4, 2011
    Posts: 93

    fourtogo
    Member
    from long beach

    Waxed String Tie
     
  4. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,758

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    AMEN brother Squirrel... from the choir at the traditional hotrod church. When I see them I think...quick and dirty!
     
  5. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,092

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I remember a metal tie strap (1/4" or so wide, maybe 6" long) At the joining end, there was a tin bulb, around 1/2" diameter...
    This 'bulb' securely locked the strap once pulled up tight...The strap was a 'sealed lock', so to remove it had to be cut.

    Anybody remember those?
     
  6. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy


    remember them?? they are still used for sealing truck trailers today . not as common as the plastic ones or the pin/pluggers , but some companies still like to use them .

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2014
  7. Ulu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 1,754

    Ulu
    Member
    from CenCal

    I only like friction tape where the wire is exposed to lots of heat. Particularly around the headers. I like to paint it flat black after installation to stop the dirt from adhering to it.

    Non-adhesive plastic tape wrapping is great, but I hate plastic electrical tape on a car. Any gas fumes make it turn gummy and the plastic shrinks leaving the gum all over the harness. Non-adhesive tape shrinks as well, but doesn't leave the goo.

    Connections get soldered & insulated with plastic dip or shrink tubing, under the wrap. I like to wrap twice, once from each direction to make a crosshatch pattern. Tie the ends of the wrap twice & stuff the tail up inside the harness.

    I use zip ties very sparingly.
     
  8. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,043

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    Dozens of ways to skin this cat I see. This brings up a question that's bothered me since nearly when I started wrenchin and buildin. I see a lot of concern for being able to check the wires in the harness when there's an electrical issue. Why? Here's this long expanse of wire sealed in lacquered cloth, tape (all kinds), later that murderous plastic convoluted shit. I can't find a single reason why I need to look at my 3, 6, 10 foot length of wire unless there was a fire. In the case of fire it's all over but the cryin. I've pulled miles of OEM Packard wire out of restoration projects as well as other makes to find the cloth covering a bit worse for wear and little else. I dunno, never saw the reason to have to access a harness "in the middle" when the gremlins are makin sparks.

    The lacquered loom works for early wiring, add friction tape to the ends, hold it in place with the metal strips or metal looped ties, or lace it, you win. You'll have sweet dreams of traditionalists bowing their heads at your attention to detail. However, this assumes you're going to let casual observers crawl over and under and inside your build. If not then zip away and zip a lip about it. You'll also notice certain applications gain popularity in hot rods when professional racers take it up. Case in point, Pro Stockers using the zip tied harness with the bonus screw holes in the end for holding it to the roll bar.
     
  9. patterpillar
    Joined: Jun 16, 2013
    Posts: 83

    patterpillar
    Member
    from Montana

    I don't know how far back, but I know the metal tags were used to keep fur trappers "legal" on beaver pelts. My Dad made a living trapping until the early 1970's.
     
  10. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,776

    pasadenahotrod
    Member
    from Texas

    The lacquered woven conduit is likely available from your local auto parts store. It is sold by the foot in various IDs from around 1/4" up to 1.5".
     
  11. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    On the "quick and dirty"...yes, I agree. They are like those red-yellow-blue wiring terminals, a sign of using whatever was easy to get and not looking around for something good.
    Wiring on a hotrod should look one of two ways IMHO:
    1. It can look like good OEM wiring kept when the car was modified...
    2. Or...it should look like the owner modified/built it with as much care as he put into his engine or dashboard. Good parts, good craftsmanship, perhaps input from race car or aircraft practices. Nothing from the electrical section of the K-Mart parts area...
     
  12. I have to laugh but if you look under the hood of a car or at a motor cycle wiring harness and it is wrapped in electrical tape there is a good chance that I did it. :eek:

    On older cars stock I have seen tailes or loops from the wiring harness made from electrical tape, I have also seen twine, metal loops (not insulated) and the metal ties that have been mentioned. A lot of older harnesses were wrapped in tape as opposed to being tied into bundles with zip ties as well as cloth wrapped.

    I personally don't have a problem with zip ties, but as for being traditional I don't recall seeing them or heat shrink before the later '60s or earlier '70s.
     
  13. RainierHooker
    Joined: Dec 20, 2011
    Posts: 1,996

    RainierHooker
    Member
    from Tacoma, WA

    I always try to use the good ol' waxed string on my wire bundles. We still use it to this day where I work (in the aerospace industry) and it looks better and you can get it tighter than a zip-tie, without worrying about chaffing.
     
  14. 6-71
    Joined: Sep 15, 2005
    Posts: 539

    6-71
    Member

    When I was in the Army(years ago) our radio maintenance guys used to lace wiring all the time.I think they were trained at the signal school.They could make a really neat harness.The government issue waxed string would certainly be traditional.
     
  15. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    There is an old HRM Spotlite book on wiring that documents good rodding practice back when, and of course plenty of earlier stuff documenting the good old splice-twist-wrap in friction tape and keep moving so the smoke dissipates of the shotrodder.
    Good lacing is definitely in there...

    (An edit on this...the Spotlite series wiring book is by HRM technowizard Don Francisco. Ten years or so earlier Francisco kicked off this learning curve with a tech article showing wiring work done as he rebuilt the toasted cut and splice wiring (done by preious owner) in his roadster...
     
  16. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,758

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    When I first started a pal worked for Ma Bell and showed me the wax string thing. He even supplied me with some of the special string. Prior to that it was common practice to just wrap the wires in vinyl tape.
     
  17. Bigchuck
    Joined: Oct 23, 2007
    Posts: 1,139

    Bigchuck
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    There are good ones out there. You get what you pay for.
     
  18. WZ JUNK
    Joined: Apr 20, 2001
    Posts: 1,650

    WZ JUNK
    Member
    from Neosho, MO

    Is unleaded gas period correct?

    John
     
  19. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Yes, just tell everyone it's Amoco.
     
  20. RainierHooker
    Joined: Dec 20, 2011
    Posts: 1,996

    RainierHooker
    Member
    from Tacoma, WA

    Well, since it only became commonplace in gas during WWII, for a pre-war build yes...;)

     
  21. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,521

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Don't you mean "Standard"?
     
  22. kirby1374
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 427

    kirby1374
    Member

    for my turn signal switch I used the asphalt coated wire loom over the wires and then used stainless safety wire to attach it to the column. I have used zip ties were they don't show but I couldn't stare at those ties on the column.
     
  23. "Having grown up in the fifties and active in the hot rod industry for longer than I care to remember, I have never seen a hot rod that remained static for any length of time. Constant changes and upgrades have always part of the hobby. In more than a few car book reader/subscriber surveys, the "what's new" section always scored high.

    Hot rods and hot rodders are always evolving."

    X2!! C,mon fellas! I mean, this is getting a bit anal isn't it!?! Kind of like putting back the chalk marks on vintage Corvette chassis.
    I've been doing this off and on since the very early 60's, and I can guarantee you that as soon as some new thing became available/affordable, we used it.
    The only hot rods that didn't evolve were the ones pushed back unfinished.
     
  24. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,135

    squirrel
    Member

    So true.

    One thing that a few guys don't get, is that if you're building a traditional car, the way it was back then, you can't go into the future (now) to get modern parts. You have to use what's available at the time.

    I guess zip ties sort the guys who are serious about building traditional cars, from the rest of us.
     
  25. Might be, I had a '57 Beetle that would run in white gas, well white gas and reefer to be exact. ;)
     
  26. WZ JUNK
    Joined: Apr 20, 2001
    Posts: 1,650

    WZ JUNK
    Member
    from Neosho, MO

    Just the other day I was looking for some Double Eagle brand re-refined oil, the kind they sold in the glass jar. It was all I could afford in the early 60's. I wanted to be period correct. I guess they do not make it anymore. I wonder why?

    There is a reason we do not build cars exactly like we did in the 50's and 60's. Todays methods are much better. I like the looks of the older builds but I do not hesitate to improve on what we had to work with then.

    Since none of the builds or rebuilds of this style car are exactly like it would have done in the original time period, why worry about a few little changes to make the car easier to work on and more functional. Relax, enjoy life, live a little.

    John
     
  27. rjaustin421
    Joined: May 1, 2009
    Posts: 337

    rjaustin421
    Member

    If you are going to build traditional then it has to be traditional with no corners cut to make it modern. I am such a stickler for tradition that I only use old air in my tires.
     
  28. castirondude
    Joined: Jan 26, 2012
    Posts: 496

    castirondude
    Member

    I've used this braided wiring sleeve and it makes a nice clean harness. It's mostly good for running longer distances. I know they used this from the factory in the 70's but not sure if they used it further back than that.

    <img src="http://blog.packrad.net/wp-data/public_html/pics/59edsel/enginebay/braided_wire_sleeve.jpg")
     
  29. castirondude
    Joined: Jan 26, 2012
    Posts: 496

    castirondude
    Member

    what's neat about the braided stuffis that you can push it together to make itreal wide and run your wires through it easily. Then stretch it to make it nice and tight around your wires.
     

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