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Hot Rods Yukon Gear Rant

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by oj, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    I am trying to install a set of Yukon gears in a GM 8.2 rear. The problem is they no longer give us a pinion depth! I called to ask about it and they said it was a 'warrenty' issue, people wouldn't go by the gear pattern! They actually give you a shim spec for the pinion, irregardless of what the original gears had. They give you backlash and you check with gear pattern.
    So here it is, this is what you have to do:
    Salvage or buy an extra pinion big bearing and hone it to slip fit, install pinion shim to their spec and install pinion to proper preload. Set carrier in place and shim it to the proper backlash as on the ring gear ( .006ish), then you apply gear grease and check the pattern. If th epattern is off then pull the carrier, remove the pinion and replace shim to change the depth, reinstall pinion to preload, reinstall carrier and reshim until you get back to .006 (you changed the pinion depth so your other shimming won't work) and then reapply grease to check pattern. Repeat steps until you get the right pattern. Now you have to take everything all back apart and press the proper pinion bearings onto the pinion and then do the final assembly!
    When I do Richmond etc they give me a pinion depth, the man that hobbs the gears in writes it on pinion, I assemble pinion with slipfit bearing, install it and measure the depth, pull it out and add shims for proper depth, check it an dpull it out to press bearings etc and reinstall to proper preload - then that is all done! All I do now is set backlash on the carrier. If you measured everyuthing proper when you apply the grease you'll have the prettiest pattern as confirmation.
    Yukon gear is a bunch of cunts more interested in covering theirs asses, the instructions are vague and generic worded so that when your gears start howling coming down a hill they'll have an 'out' when it comes to warrenty.
    I love their shim packs but I'll never install another set of their gears.
     
  2. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,085

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    I don't have a depth gauge....never did
    I don't hone out a bearing because I can remove them without screwing it up.
    If I am lucky to be building a rear end that no one has been in I start with the pinion shim from the old pinion.
    Works for me... sometimes I have to change the shim sometimes not.
     
    Nailhead Jason likes this.
  3. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    I have splitter, press etc and on most pinion brgs I can't get behind the race part to pull them, how do you do it?
    I start with the original shim too, per factory books. In the case of my rant the shim was .044, Yukon says to shim to .030. Since I started this thread I've had it apart and reshimmed 4 times, getting ready to do it a 5th.
     
  4. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,085

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    I use my splitter.
    When I get it position and the bolts snug I place one half the splitter on the vice vertical and smack it with a hammer to get the tapered part of the splitter behind the bearing then tighten the bolts up.
     
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  5. doyoulikesleds
    Joined: Jul 12, 2014
    Posts: 254

    doyoulikesleds

    If you dont like there gears why are you putting them in buy the gears you like
     
    bobg1951chevy likes this.
  6. They are being up front with you when they said they no longer make depth available and "start at 30". The question is can you read your pattern and know how to correct it ? Did you know Yukon no longer laps their gear set's ? This is why a depth isn't given. You run it and laps it's self.
     
    bobg1951chevy likes this.
  7. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    Yes, I am now out to .044 on the pinion shim - the original amount - and things are staring to fall into place. I was tired last night when I made the last shim change and will read the pattern this morning. If th epattern is perfect then I'll still have to take it all apart to press the proper big bearing onto the pinion and do the final assembly.
    They don't 'lap' gears? Then they'd better start making sprockets for lawn mowers because they are not competant to make gear sets for cars. I will never, ever, install another Yukon gear set, I'd use their installation set & shim pack in a millisecond for ir is superior. That makes me think that whomever designed the shim pack no longer has a voice in the gear manufacturoring.
    If they don't want to give us the proper information to set up the gears then they won't be used.
     
  8. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    Good question. The gears are for a '66 GTO, it has an odd rear referred to as '8.2 B-P' for Buick Pontiac, the gearsets are limited to 3.54 and numerically higher. Yukon makes an adapter to put GM gearsets in it where you use their carrier, pinion adaptor, and 3.08 ring & pinon. I've used Yukon in the past and the pinion was depth was given and the assembly went smooth. It was in a Cobra that sees road racing and is a pace car for the Mid Atlantic Road Race series, so the gear set sees abuse and has worked fine. In fact the car is scheduled back in the shop in March to replace the front control arms, so I would have known if there were any issues with the rear.
     
  9. Well there's the answer to your frustration. Wrong gear's (I'm being theoretical and over describing) in a foreign place therefore somethings gotta give. And that would be the pinion depth. That's the final step in making it all work together. Yukon isn't the only company not lapping anymore. I thought you'd like to know that also.
     
  10. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,085

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    I was under the thinking that the depth of the pinion was set by the machining of the housing and not the gear set so to start with the original shim is always best.
     
  11. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    The Richmond-Motive gears I installed a couple weeks ago were marked as well as the set I am doing Monday. I wouldn't think the lapping changes the gear tolerances. I've done the micropolished gearsets as well and the original pinion depth is still the place to start although the backlash is entirely different.
     
  12. When i worked for Chevy in the 90's i did tons of rear axle rebuilds in half ton trucks and camaros. Almost once a week for a while. Almost always used gears from GM (which i believe were really from Richmond) but more than half the time there was no info to start with for a pinion shim. I still have a drawer full of bearing that are honed for doing exactly what you said with slipping it on and starting the set up. I eventually got bearings for most 10 and 12 bolt rears for setting them up for myself and friends. I just got into the habbit of setting them up that way from the get go. When your doing a rear under warranty it probably was not set up right to begin with so rarely could you use the original shim anyway.
     
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  13. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    Pinion depth is from face of pinion to center of axle (or the machined surface the bearing saddle bolts to. You install the pinion and measure the distance then remove and shim it out from the case to where the guy that made the gears expects it to be.
    Yukon said to shim .030, I had it apart and back together moving the ring gear several times and then started shimming the pinion out. Here is a pic of it this morning after going from .030 out to .042 on the pinion to get it close enough for pattern: DSC00574.JPG
    I was still too far away and am now at .046 and finally getting an acceptable pattern. Now I have to take it all back apart again and press the proper bearings onto the pinion. All this because they wouldn't give me a proper pinion depth.
     
  14. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,679

    Larry T
    Member

    Doesn't Yukon Gear own Richmond Gear now. I never had trouble setting up Richmonds until about a year ago. And I never like the way Yukons go together and now the way Richmond gears go together.
    I've quit setting up gears for customers (hard to look them in the eye and tell them how much time it took and how much labor they owe) and if I'm doing my own, I'll try to find a good set of OEM or old Richmonds to use.
     
  15. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    Richmond was bought by Motive and my last set of Richmond was hard to set up because the installation kit shims went by .005 an dthey spec .007 BL. Now how the hell do you get there? I had to purchase another shim kit from Rateck to get some different thickness shims. I flat charge, no way I could charge anybody for all the time I have in this set. Thing is I enjoy doing gears. I'm pretty sure Motive does the gears for Strange too.
     
    Larry T likes this.
  16. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,147

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have honed pinion bearings, and honed carrier bearings for all of the differentials that I work on. The procedure that you have described is the exact one that I have used to set them up, since 1988.

    I have about 200 shims, in various sizes, left over from previous setups.

    What used to take me about 6-hours, I can now pull off in 45-60 minutes, max.
     
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  17. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,147

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    While that might sound bad to some, that is exactly what happens anyway.

    I can personally guarantee you that, no matter how good you are, you will NEVER match the position that the gears were lapped in, when you set them up. You can get close. That is it. What that means is, is that they are self-lapping, as you drive. So you get only 250,000 miles out of the gear set, and not 350,000 miles out of the gear set.

    Bummer.

    Oh, and if you did manage to get it dead-on, as soon as your housing flexed going down the road, it's off.
     
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  18. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,147

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    I just did my first Dana 60 pinion is marked by who cut the gears . You are supposed to use this mark vs the mark from OEM gear set and have correct pinion depth . Lots of luck here , similar to playing with a loaded gun to me . I guess you are unlucky if it works . I have about 3 hours setting up with "Set Up" bearings , only way I can see to get it correct . Then it will never mark as seen in pictures . I have done hundreds of 9 inch Fords , what a breeze compared to these bastards ! I'm thinking you have to be a bunch off to end up with a howlin gear set , if you think you are close , I'm betting it will be fine . Cheaper manufacturing costs have shown up in all aspects of our life , this is a prime example , what was wrong with adjustable carrier bearings , the hell with shims !


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,147

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Did you remember to use a case spreader?
     
  20. I love it when I learn something new. All I've ever worked on is drop out's. I guess all the later stuff I've watched friends do was monkey business. [​IMG]
     
  21. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,147

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    For anyone who has ever wondered what the two round holes on the outside of the center section were for:
    upload_2017-1-12_20-47-35.png

    They are for a case spreader:
    [​IMG]
    That is how proper carrier bearing preload is done on a Dana axle. You literally pry the case apart before dropping in the carrier.
     
  22. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,679

    Larry T
    Member

    Do you put the carrier shims on the inside of the bearing?
     
  23. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,604

    55willys
    Member

    Or if you don't have that make the bearings on the tight side and beat it in with a block of wood and a sledge hammer. I have done a number of diff set ups and never had one howl.
     
  24. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,147

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes. between the cone and the carrier.
     
  25. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,147

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sure, but you cannot measure the preload. Since I provide a lifetime warranty, I won't leave anything to chance.
     
  26. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,604

    55willys
    Member

    After doing a few you kinda get a feel for it. And when you are lying on your back in the driveway fixing the step sons bad bearings in the Dana 60 in his work van... well you can imagine.
     
  27. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,147

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I did a Dana 70, out in the rocks, in Moab Utah. It was less than fun, but that was a tow rig, so evacuation would have meant towing the tow rig, the trailer, and the rock rig, separately.
     
  28. Da Tinman
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 4,226

    Da Tinman
    Member

    That's bad juju if Motive now owns Richmond, my trials and tribulations with Motive gear have reached near biblical in scale.

    Broke 2 of em last year in my Jeep, they were good about replacing them but that doesn't help with the time and effort to replace them. I also had problems getting a good pattern, one set had no shims on the gear side of the locker and a bunch on the other side, 2 of em needed the pinion shimmed out pretty far in order get the pattern centered.

    Yukon's have shimmed up more centered and the pinion is pretty close to the stock location. The input yoke fits a lot tighter on the Yukon's.

    All the gears failed in the same way, ring gear teeth turned to powder.

    I went back to Yukon, that's what it had to start with and it gave up when I did something stupid. The Motives broke under way less stress.

    Just finished the gear swap Monday.
     
  29. 67Coug
    Joined: Dec 24, 2006
    Posts: 11

    67Coug
    Member

    Simple solution: Set that GM diff on end in a bucket of concrete and bolt your mailbox on top. Then install a Ford 9"! You'd be time and money ahead by now!
     
  30. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    That rear ain't much. I advised the owner to swap it out for Chevelle 12bolt, but this thing is an original 4spd tripower car and wants to keep it 'original'.
     

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