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Y Block Guys... Question?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Johnny Suede, Jun 22, 2012.

  1. Johnny Suede
    Joined: Jun 12, 2012
    Posts: 24

    Johnny Suede
    Member

    I scored a set of 312 big valve heads, ECZ-G castings... I took em' to the shop for a 3 angle valve job @ $160.00. They tell me they need new exhaust valves, seats, springs and a small crack repair; the price just shot up to 500.00... are they worth the extra money?

    -Johnny:confused:
     
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 45,279

    squirrel
    Member

    speed costs money...how fast do you want to go?
     
  3. 35desoto
    Joined: Oct 6, 2009
    Posts: 761

    35desoto
    Member

    What the machine shop has listed is basic repairs regardless of speed. If their assessment is right then the quote is not unreasonable and for a good set of heads thats not bad - you pay for what you get.
    Good seating valves with no leakage helps make sure what the engine sucks in gets burnt as best as possible and provides the best bang gas can give you.
    Nothing they proposed is out of the ordinary - exhaust valves get a lot of hammering, Valve seats get a hammering. springs go through lots of "cycles" and get weak. Sounds as though they have properly assessed what you have and given you an honest approach.
     
  4. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 45,279

    squirrel
    Member

    In this case, "speed" is installing big valve heads to replace small valve heads. At least that's what it sounds like is going on.
     
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  5. y-oh-y
    Joined: Feb 14, 2012
    Posts: 116

    y-oh-y
    Member

    I've been watching head prices for a while now. A pair of "good" used heads $300-400. An extra $100 or so to KNOW you have good heads sounds good to me.
     
  6. Chuck Most
    Joined: May 8, 2009
    Posts: 175

    Chuck Most
    Member
    from Saskatoon

    $500 is not at all unreasonable. Worth the money? What does peace of mind cost? Addressing any issues now is a lot better course of action then having big problems later.
     
  7. OP,

    If I'm understanding your post correctly, you're not questioning the price per se....you are wondering if the G heads are "all that" as compared to "less worthy" Y heads, and are they worth the cost/effort to make them work?

    It depends on who you ask. Perhaps more importantly, it depends on what you plan to do with the engine, and what you expect out of it.

    Some other head castings have the bigger valves too. Further, some years ago John Mummert (if memory serves) did a flow test on the G heads and other Y castings, and found that the G heads in stock form did not significantly outflow the much more common C & A castings.

    The main benefit of G heads are the (nominal) 69cc chambers, which are the smallest of all the castings. Since all Y blocks suffer from dismally low compression in stock form, the G heads are a quick way to boost compression on a factory short block.

    They also can be ported to improve flow, as can other castings. Some people say that the G heads have the most potential of all OE Y block heads...maybe. Tim McMasters, among others, has managed to get impressive results with supposed "inferior" casting numbers.

    For a 272 or 292 stock or mild street engine, built properly with attention paid to deck height, gasket choice, and static compression ratio, the G heads are likely not worth the "entry fee"....as noted, the initial buy-in price seems to be much higher. Of course there are always deals.

    A very serious engine, needing a lot of compression, may require the smaller chambers of the G or the 113 heads to get a certain number.

    In your specific case, you have a couple of options (assuming aluminum heads are out of the budget).

    I see single G heads available on eBay fairly often, usually at a lower price per head than the pairs. That might deal with the cracked head issue in a more economic way.

    Springs are a consumable item, and even if you are doing a bone-stock rebuild I would replace them- they were not particularly good in the first place, and nearly all stock springs I've ever tested were marginal at best. Better (mild) springs are cheap insurance and won't break the budget, unless your shop is really padding the cost or has bad sources.

    Regarding the seats & exhaust valves: are they specifically bad- or is it because the shop is recommending that you get hardened seats "because of unleaded gas"? That's a whole 'nother topic, which I won't get into unless needed. ;)
     
  8. fordpatina
    Joined: May 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,178

    fordpatina
    Member

    I think is a good price for what you are getting done
     
  9. y'sguy
    Joined: Feb 25, 2008
    Posts: 366

    y'sguy
    Member
    from Tulsa, OK

    As long as they're at it see about the valve guides getting replaced also. I know more money! They are not gold however and you might want to shop around for one that's not cracked if you have the time. BtW Mummerts Aluminum heads I think start at around 2100ish with everything ready to go. just sayin. He reworked my g heads, that are posted, milled em ported them new springs equalized the chambers. New stainless valves, bronze guides and intalled my ISKY springs to correct height. $1400 Aluminum wasn't available at the time.
     
  10. Johnny Suede
    Joined: Jun 12, 2012
    Posts: 24

    Johnny Suede
    Member

    Thanks everyone,

    Homespun91 hit the nail on the head. I have a spare set of heads for the 292 I'm building, but the block came with ECZ-G heads too. I was just wondering if they were worth the extra bucks to have the crack fixed or if I should just stick the other heads on and not spend the extra money. The other heads would probably need some work too, not as much though, the guy I got it all from thought they had been gone through and never run, but they have been sitting quite some time for sure.

    Basically, I scored a 292 block that has had the machine work done. <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]-->[FONT=&quot]1959 Edsel block, bored .030 and honed, 292 crank, freshly ground .010, .010. [/FONT]And, it literally came with a full truck load of parts. I'm going to put it in my 53'.

    This is my first Y-Block, I have been buying books and asking as many questions as possible to soak up all the knowledge I can before I continue with the assembly. Everyone is telling me to put a 302, 351w in her or a SBC(not gonna happen I'm a Ford guy). However, I really like the nostalgia of the Y-Block. I am on somewhat of a budget though, aluminum heads are definitely out of the question for now.

    I read this in a Street Rodder Article:

    Standard practice for rebuilding a Y-Block?

    Any suggestions or tips are greatly appreciated!

    -Johnny
     
  11. y'sguy
    Joined: Feb 25, 2008
    Posts: 366

    y'sguy
    Member
    from Tulsa, OK

    For your application and budget you can do just fine with working over the non G heads IMHO. That way you won't be wondering about that crack repair (at least I would:))

    I've also done the procedure of drilling the block and heads to match the gasket, to compensate for heat issues HOWEVER, that is in debate as to whether it is necessary or works adequately. It does increase the chance of gasket leakage although I've not had any. My engine does run with great oil pressure, no problem with cooling or the other stuff people complain about with a Y.
    For your deal you can have a lot of fun with that yblock by spreading around the money with a good post 1957 dist, intake and carb setup. A good tune, maybe rams horns (if they'd fit?) or headers and you'll be sounding good, far more interesting than a sbc or 302 or 351. Keep us up to date.
     
  12. Johnny Suede
    Joined: Jun 12, 2012
    Posts: 24

    Johnny Suede
    Member

    Thanks y's Guy:) I think the ram horns would be sweet, but I'm not sure what's going to fit yet. the motor came with 3 different pairs of exhaust manifolds, and I'm not sure any of those are going to work because of the steering and linkage. I have two pairs of dual exhaust and one of the cross over single exhaust sets. I'll have to do some more checking to see what other guys have done when putting y's into a shoebox.

    I went ahead with the heads and had them drilled, the guys at the shop said they would do it for no extra charge.

    The motor came with a cam that has a fresh grind, it's in a box, it also has the oil groove, but there is no spec sheet, all it says is Ford 292... so I'm thinking about getting an ISKY 301300.

    Most of the articles I've read say that you need to have the oil groove put in the cams.

    I know that is done mainly to fix oiling problems with the old cams that came with the four holes drilled in the center journal, but do you have to have the new cams grooved deeper or is it only done to replace the ones with no groove at all? I keep getting mixed signals from the articles I'm reading.

    Thanks again,
    -Johnny:)
     
  13. Fairlane Mike
    Joined: Sep 21, 2010
    Posts: 389

    Fairlane Mike
    Member

    Just curious as to what you did, if nothing else get another opinion from another shop, generally though most of these old head castings, regardless of make, need quite a bit to make 'em nice. A lot of the oiling problems were due to non-detergent oils back in the day! Ford went to the cross-drilled center journal to keep more oil pressure in the bottom end, I have built Y-blocks with both types, they both oiled good at the rockers! I know that opens up a can of worms with y-block guys, but I personally like the cross-drilled version! I believe the center cam bearing is very critical on these engines; when I install one I check the alignment with a light through the block oil gallery, (the ones that go to the heads in other words), and I even check with the cam installed, with a piece of soft wire, to be sure EVERYTHING is lined up. Since someone else will probably install these for you, be certain that both sides are lined up; its possible to have the bearing in wrong and only ONE side oils!! Good luck!
     
  14. Johnny Suede
    Joined: Jun 12, 2012
    Posts: 24

    Johnny Suede
    Member

    Hi Mike,

    I took my block in and had it checked at a local shop. They checked the cam bearings for me, I got an Isky 301300 and I had them make the center groove deeper as suggested on John Mummert's site.

    I went ahead and had the shop fix up the G heads, new valves, hardened seats, new springs...


    Also,

    Since I last posted it's almost ready to go in the car. I found a couple more 292s pretty cheap and even scored a post 57 distributor, a set of 113 heads and a pair of ram horns, all for under $300.00

    I've spent almost every last cent I've earned, but hopefully I'll be able to hear that Y roar pretty soon...

    -Johnny
     
  15. 57Custom300
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,277

    57Custom300
    Member
    from Arizona

    Just picked up my G heads and spent almost 500$ on them doing just about the same things as yours. I picked up my heads at a car show from a guy that raced Yblocks years ago & had plenty of parts. The heads were bare & in poor condition but I could see they had been ported at some time. Now that they're clean & shiney I can see some work on the combustion chambers also. They ended up replacing all the exhaust seats & 6 of the intakes. Like I said, poor condition. I only paid 40$ bucks for them so I figure I'm about even with everything & have a good set of heads.

    I agree w/Fairlane Mike on the crossdrilled camshafts. I recall talking to my Dad about yblock problems (dont recall the specific problem) but he said, "Ford fixed that problem when they went to a crossdrilled camshaft".
    Goes against 95% of yblock fans opinions

    Keep us posted on your build.
     
  16. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,908

    40FordGuy
    Member

    That price sounds about right. Yes,... The cross drilled cam was one of those "better ideas".

    4TTRUK
     

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