Register now to get rid of these ads!

Y-block firing order fiasco...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by mechanic58, Dec 21, 2013.

  1. mechanic58
    Joined: Mar 21, 2010
    Posts: 681

    mechanic58
    Member

    To me, the GM cylinder numbering system makes more sense. They're numbered by the connecting rod, starting from the front. This results in the furthest forward cylinder being #1 and each successive cylinder on that bank being an odd number (1-3-5-7, etc with 2-4-6-8 on the pass side). Fords have always been asshole backwards and illogical in my opinion. lol

    Yep, far as I know. I guess I was just having a brain fart on this deal here - afterall - I found the diagram on the almighty internet...it couldn't possibly be wrong!
     
  2. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,630

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    You really oughta try a Pontiac!
     
  3. HarryT
    Joined: Nov 7, 2006
    Posts: 506

    HarryT
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    On the Buick Nailhead diagram, not only is the distributor on the wrong end of the motor, but cylinders 1,3,5,7 should be on the left side facing the motor and 2,4,6,8 should be on the right side.
     
  4. Well, believe this or else, I did a Y block for my uncle and somehow wired the distributor backwards. I had #1 wire in the right hole but went the wrong direction from there. The thing actually started and ran although crappy. I even drove it on the road. I was pulling my hair out and was just about to pull the timing cover off to see if I screwed up there. I made one last look at the manual and there it was.......yeah, I felt pretty stupid.
     
  5. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,103

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota


    Chilton, Motor, or Mitchell manuals is probably where the problem stems from in the first place, not MSD.

    Looks to me like they have reprinted an illustration from one of the above and if you think they don't make errors and/or provide incomplete information, you haven't worked for them as I have.
     
  6. mechanic58
    Joined: Mar 21, 2010
    Posts: 681

    mechanic58
    Member


    lmao - I had my shit half-assed running also, cross-wired. I was ready to punch a baby. It sounded like it was running about 20* ATDC, but I KNEW it was actually 'advanced'. The worst part of all of this is that I fucking KNOW BETTER. I got caught up with "official documents" that couldn't possibly be wrong.

    Now I know why my old man has a conspiracy theory about everything....lol.
     
  7. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,476

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    I still have old C. E. Niehoff ignition parts catalog and tune up manuals that list almost anything you want to know about an engine and they were free.
     
  8. I have found that almost anything printed or listed by Man will have mistakes, use common sense and double check. If it doesn't sound/look right cross check it. When I read a book or a manual and find an obvious mistake on something I know about it makes me question the things I read that I don't know about. Know what I mean? :rolleyes: lol Mistakes are everywhere. :p
     
  9. I spent half a day trying to get one to run in an Edsel- double, triple checked plug leads, TDC, valve positions, it wouldnt fire or run for shit- until a buddy reads the book and calmly reads out..."the V8 distrubutor runs CCW!!!".... I've only ever worked on non-Ford V8,s where the distributor ran CW. Pulled the plug leads off, put them in the right holes and it fired up and ran like a watch!
    Damn Fords!
     
  10. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,715

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    You're not the only one who has had trouble figuring out firing order. After a while I finally figured out the firing order on my grandkids new Junior Dragster Briggs and Stratton engine:

    1
     
  11. I doubt if that is true .... maybe Haynes or the more amateur manuals but not Motors Manual. Printed every year with a new edition and bought by pros, the professional would be on the publishers ass in a heartbeat if there were any mistakes.

    I think the problem lies with MSD ... their graffix (spelled that way on purpose!) department needs to brush up on their cut and paste skills.

    A used $10 Motors Manual from the swapmeet is well worth the cost.
     
  12. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,861

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    That's an old chart lying static on the internet.
    I just looked at MSD's site and they have posted a corrected version of the chart (a quick glance shows at least the Flathead and VW info was corrected).
    What a red faced episode for MSD though. Wonder how many pissed off and frustrated wrenches called their tech line!?




    http://www.msdignition.com/default.aspx?id=15476&blogid=429&terms=firing order
     
  13. Mike Moreau
    Joined: Sep 16, 2011
    Posts: 275

    Mike Moreau
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Nailhead diagram is also incorrect. Correct is: distributor at rear, #1 on the front, passenger side. Everyone make mistakes, It would be interesting to know how MSD reacts to this.
     
  14. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,103

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota


    Surely you jest

    Once a printed manual has been published, it's uncorrectable and like a mousetrap, it is just waiting for someone to get caught in it.

    Corrections to book errors are now posted on the company website. Now the guy who bought the book is going to look for errors on a computer?

    In addition to the subject errors discussed here, I remember a Truck Repair manual back in the 90's that had the captions for two diferent sized Ford V8 engine Torque specs and tightening sequence diagrams reversed.

    Got a call from a customer who had stripped some threads out the block. Now anyone being super careful may have looked at both diagrams and realized the problem but most would not.

    Cost me, not the company, for the Heli coil repair.

    Again don't blame MSD, they used available industry information, it just happened to be wrong.


     
  15. ynottayblock
    Joined: Dec 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,954

    ynottayblock
    Member

    yeah...one mistake I could take that road, but 4 mistakes on one page??? Im sorry but they deserve blame on that. All somebody had to do was double check someone elses work.
     
  16. mechanic58
    Joined: Mar 21, 2010
    Posts: 681

    mechanic58
    Member

    In retrospect - *I* suspect someone took that diagram and photoshopped it and then posted it conspicuously on the internet as a joke. If you look at the diagram it would be extremely easy to chop up - even with a program as simple as MS Paint.
     
  17. mechanic58
    Joined: Mar 21, 2010
    Posts: 681

    mechanic58
    Member

    See....this only took me 10 mins...

    [​IMG]
     
  18. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,219

    sunbeam
    Member

    Maybe that is the correct firing order for a Pontiac flathead V8. Yes they did make one 1932.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
  19. you are missing the optional Willys Hemi, but the VW order looks right now.
     
  20. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,861

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    Nope, Bangshift.com pasted it from MSD's website on 9-14-09.

    http://bangshift.com/blog/chart-of-common-v8-firing-orders-courtesy-msd.html

    The link to MSD on the Bangshift page now leads to the corrected chart as I posted the link to above.
    MSD screwed up royal then made the corrections, no doubt after having a lot of folks letting them know about the errors. MSD's exec's must have been red ass embarrased when they (and their competition) heard about their tech sheet being full of holes!
     
  21. 29AVEE8
    Joined: Jun 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,384

    29AVEE8
    Member

    Seems I recall one of the manuals had the wrong main cap torque specs. for the 312 Y and this led to many a cracked main web. Anyone know if this is correct? Which manual?
     
  22. Zerk
    Joined: May 26, 2005
    Posts: 1,419

    Zerk
    Member

    Funny as hell, but I almost wish you hadn't created this landmine for the oblivious:rolleyes::D
     
  23. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,630

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    It is the correct firing order. The problem with Pontiac engines is #2 is in front of #1. Factory iron intakes have the numbers on them, so if you look on the intake you will have no problem.
     
  24. mechanic58
    Joined: Mar 21, 2010
    Posts: 681

    mechanic58
    Member


    lol...I couldn't help myself.
     
  25. Yes this is true. Motors manual has it listed as 120-130 lbs WRONG! :rolleyes:
     
  26. chase knight
    Joined: Jul 2, 2007
    Posts: 114

    chase knight
    Member

    Another fun deal with the first year 239 Y-block, the distributor has the same appearance as the later ones, however the gear tooth count is one off from the later models. The 239 cam (with the matching number of teeth) is a different diameter, so it's tough to mess up swapping cams, but having "overdrive" on the distributor can lead to some creative troubleshooting. Regards, Chase
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.